Must be due to a weak man then..

Where I originate from at least all the men I've known including my own boyfriends never let many women get their way, and would leave them if they didn't get their way.. even a friends husband of mine who could not handle his wife's progress at work and wanting to go for her commission. He said me or your job?
She chose her job, and he left her. She got her commission and met a rather handsome man in the same job too, and then her ex husband wanted her back and guess what?

He got the answer he deserved that's what

I think you hit the nail on the head yourself. Read the Invisible Knapsack.

http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

One of the concepts is that men are taught not to recognize male privilege.

Clausti and clee03m said it better than I could. I don't object to the fact that for some women, climbing and motherhood are incompatible. I object to who sebs made it sound like that incompatibility is inevitable, and worse than that, if you don't recognize that climbing and motherhood are incompatible, you will make your kids miserable (again with the "bad mom" finger pointing).

Well this is true, same as any forum. I actually found women worse in the forces, for most join up for the men (not this woman I might add) and the men were not stupid nor blind to not see it, and as a result never went near those women, but those women used to give me a hard nasty time and make out I had loads of boyfriends in a not so nice way.. well yes I did have boy (friends) not lovers as they would only see it, and only as they joined up for that but did not get that, this is why they could only think and relate to it in their tunnel visioned way (as I saw it). The real reason I had so many male friends was 1. the reason you brought up, less biatchy there at least and I chose not to be around them due to that.
2. I was competitive in sports and not many of the women there could keep up, but the men tended to be more into my sports and vice-versa and I joined 1-2 RAF runners for long distance runs (which I don't do if I go alone as it is too boring), but they liked that I could keep up with them.

In nursing too, as it is mostly women, it shocked me at how biatchy it was at work, especially in nursing, you'd think the caring profession would not be that way, but wrong. Luckily I got a better impression of nursing in the forces, the nurses were nice and Officers were anyway, but what a difference when I left! Had I got my first impression outside the forces I'd likely not have gone into nursing having then gained a bad impression.

It's not all been bad though, I also worked with some equally lovely colleagues, but you always tend to get at least one trouble maker at least who sadly does tend to be a female I have noticed.

Ahem! Excuse me but.. You got any brothers??

I do know for a fact that first part is true, there are some places where men treat women like man slaves.
We had a neighbour in the UK who clearly couldn't find a girlfriend (to put up with him) I say that, as he went to the far east to marry a girl there and bring her back to the UK, well most guys that did that did so as they liked their traditional ways of cooking, cleaning, (servant around the house for the male) basically, and it was obvious to quite a lot of us what he was up to..

So I do not disbelieve for a minute that this still happens, and what about the underpaid live- in fillipino child minders? They too are treated as slaves in a way, given a petty wage, don't really get a life of their own, in exchange for free bed and board they have to take care of the kids and at times housework too.

But gender has everything to do with the kind of pressures you WILL have to face -- from people around you.

All I am saying is that you will be facing a harder time than a male in this situation because of your gender -- NOT that you would be making YOUR decision based on gender.

Your husband may be supportive, your parents may even be supportive, but you would hear things from other women. From other parents. From random strangers. Things that a guy in your situation would never have to hear. Things that would make you feel bad, even though you are convinced that you are making the right choice. (surely you understand this, given the "ego" thread)

Three disagreements from what you've said. Actually, the only way other people's comments bother me is if I have an insecurity to begin with. I clearly don't have an issue or an insecurity regarding gender equality. [read: ranting and raving feminist] So, I really don't think anyone who tries to mouth off to me will have any affect other than annoyance. i certainly won't stop climbing for them. Also, i have always said that having kids may mean that i may have to cut back on climbing. So i am not sure where you get that i have unrealistic expectations regarding how much time it takes to have kids. I hate to keep sounding like a broken record, but for me, cutting back on climbing won't be a gender issue. Lastly, i don't know how much of what you talk about is out there. It's definately an issue. All i'm saying is that the defeatist attitude is not helpful.

I am of the personal belief that if a woman can pass the same physical fitness and strengh standards that men pass, that they should be allowed to serve as front line infantry and combat troops.

Ha, sorry. Only one younger brother ;)

Either way, you need to set your priorities. I have seldom let society dictate what I do unless it will have a direct impact on me (I do tend to wear pants in public because I don't want to get arrested!)...

PS I'm not directing this at you, just using it as a step-off point to rant ;)

Yer but who'd want to do that??

That's a man's job!!



Sorry but you won't catch me joining our army, it's true you are treated like a man and not a lady.. (a big comparison between our British Army and our British Air Force by the way).. same as women in the RAF do not end up on the front line - and that is the RAF in general. (I am pleased to say, personally speaking). The army do go to the front line.
However, you tend to find men who do are men that want to go to eg. Afghanisthan, and it applies to both the Army, Navy, and Air Force etc.. most men join to defend the country and commonly I will hear, "This is what I joined for"... not a fear and I never heard one "I don't want to go!"

Heh! Shame..
he's probably too young for me too, and too far away, I am not into long distance relationships.

You know you can get away with that publically on the nudist beach!

You won't catch me there, I got tricked into that last year and was told I was going to a private beach, had never been there before.. so you can imagine the nasty surprise I got when I did get there.. older men and not pleasant I can tell you.. my reaction was, "I don't want to swim here"...

And comments not bothering you and feeling secure about your choices -- that is an attitude worth cultivating. No disagreement from me on this. But comments don't always come in clearly labeled separate issues. One of the comments from the other thread was about finding a "girl to round up the climbing group". It clearly rattled you-- it was about climbing abilities, but it was about gender, too, and assumptions of which gender is a weaker one for climbing, you know? You may be secure in your feminist role, but as a new parent you may not be secure about the parenting decisions you make, in case something doesn't go quite as you expected and you are second-guessing yourself-- and bingo, someone's comment about you as a mother all of a sudden finds a mark b/c your role as a woman and your role as a mother become intertwined.

I considered myself a pretty confident person at one time and then bammmm! Once I entered parenthood, issues, beliefs, or ideas that were once clear became pretty damn muddy and morphed together. As a result, I started second guessing myself a lot; no matter if was something that popped into my head totally unprompted or if it was something with some external influence, like local social underpinnings. I suspect that this is also a result of my analytical nature. It's something that I'm adjusting to, but it was really hard at first.

Ha, is China too far? And judging by your pictuers you couldn't be more than 30! That's not that much older!

Someone told me a long time ago, before kids: once you have a child, it will be the last time in your life that you will have all the answers.

I didn't realize how true it was until I got there.

Not that I ever claimed that I knew all the answers, but I was very confident about a lot of things. Too bad nobody informed my children of those things.

Well I always thought parents were meant to guide their children and discipline them, not let them take control of you and 'know' all the answers, when they don't if they are still growing up...

you learn alot from older adults, older, wise, and more worldly wide.. that's where you will find the most people with all the answers..

Well I always thought parents were meant to guide their children and discipline them, not let them take control of you and 'know' all the answers, when they don't if they are still growing up...

you learn alot from older adults, older, wise, and more worldly wide.. that's where you will find the most people with all the answers..

No, this isn't what I meant. I was talking about entirely personal ideologies (knowing or thinking things for yourself) and what happens to them once you make the transition from the single-self to the mother-child being (holy newagey!). To oversimplify, for myself only, I began to question them all, if they still represented who I was and if they were compatible with guiding a wee one through life. Hence the, "damn muddy and morphed together. As a result, I started second guessing myself a lot" comment.

When my daughter was born, I lifted her out of the water. She lifted her head (yes, she did) and looked at me with very strong, intent eyes. This event confirmed what I had suspected throughout the pregnancy...the little one was (and is) strong willed. There's no way in hell I'll ever be able to have any answers for her, she already has own. And that's fine by me.

This is an interesting concept. It's a double edged sword though, isn't it? If you acknoledge a steriotype, you give it power. It becomes a self fulfilling proficy. If you ignore it though, it can create damage that you're ignorant to.

Maybe that's why you have men talking so strongly against this idea as a whole? I myself am very pro-equality between the sexes and races. It personaly bothers me to acknoledge an inequality. Like, women and men should just work under the assumption that there is equality so that we don't fall into the routines of inequality. If we develop a culture where men and women and all races are concidered fundamentally equal, wouldn't that be much more benificial than the woe-is-me response?

My reaction to the article is that it is total BS from a time past. I personally believe that it is something that we should put down with vehemance. It might sound like I'm living in a fantasy world, but the world is what we make of it.

I say, don't tollerate these steriotypes. I say, if someone is trying to shove this kind of BS down your throat as fact, tell them that they are the ones that are behind the societal curve.

We have a responsibility to create a new world view. One where you are judged by the contents of our character and not our race or sex.

wow..Just to set the record strait . I did not have my 13 year old son babysit 4 young children. That would not be fair to anyone.

And comments not bothering you and feeling secure about your choices -- that is an attitude worth cultivating. No disagreement from me on this. But comments don't always come in clearly labeled separate issues. One of the comments from the other thread was about finding a "girl to round up the climbing group". It clearly rattled you-- it was about climbing abilities, but it was about gender, too, and assumptions of which gender is a weaker one for climbing, you know? You may be secure in your feminist role, but as a new parent you may not be secure about the parenting decisions you make, in case something doesn't go quite as you expected and you are second-guessing yourself-- and bingo, someone's comment about you as a mother all of a sudden finds a mark b/c your role as a woman and your role as a mother become intertwined.