There's an article in Climbing this month called "8 confessions of a climbing mom", the conclusions of which state:

"1) Climbing and motherhood are pretty much incompatible, and 2) if your life's goal, now and later, is to climb as much as possible, you probably shouldn't become a mom-odds are high you'll be miserable, and so will your children."

Ouch. Harsh.

Now, I'm not a mom so I will readily admit that I don't know what it's like to try to balance climbing and motherhood. I'm really hopeful though that my husband and I will be like Don and Phyl Munday, who had a kid and still managed to do tons of first ascents in B.C., and that other people won't judge me saying that I'm making my kids miserable.

It pisses me off that you would never see an article like this written by a man. "8 confessions of a climbing dad", or "Climbing and fatherhood are incompatible". Why do women allow themselves to get sucked into this stupid guilt game, and go around pointing the "You're a bad mom" finger?

Anyway, any thoughts? Especially from climbing dads and climbing moms...

(and yes I remember a similar discussion about breastfeeding at the crag a long time ago... thought I would start a new thread though related to the article).

wow..Just to set the record strait . I did not have my 13 year old son babysit 4 young children. That would not be fair to anyone. I did have to hire a sitter or take them with me. At the time that I started climbing I was a single parent with 4 kids. so, you are right I did not go from being a climber with no kids to a climber with kids. Climbing with kids is not something new , it a way of life. I did marry a climber ten years ago and he the reason that I am able to climb like I do. My husband not only supports my climbing but helps to make it happen. I think that I am a lot older then a lot of the moms and moms to be that are on this blog. I am 47 years old and have been raising young kids for 24 years. I have been a climbing mom for 11 years. Three of my kids a grown and married, with their kids. It is fun to watch my son, (who by the way is an RN) raise his own daughter and support her climbing. I do still have 2 kids at home 11 and 16, they are both climbers, one is a member of the USA national team. Lucky for me they both want to go climbing most days. I guess what I am trying to say is that Susans article in Climbing mag. was upsetting. I do know that motherhood and climbing can go together beautifully, I have done it for 11 years with 5 kids. I also know , since some of my kids are adults now, that they have benifitted from the climbing lifestyle that I have chosen. I am also lucky to have a lot of sport climbing, trad climbing, bouldering and a good gym close to my house. I guess the discussion about if moms should climb will go on forever, just like the debates over breast/bottle, job/stay at home, or homeschool/public school, the list goes on and on. Every mom will have to make her own choices about her climbing and her parenting..For me I am happy to be a mom and a climber. Climb on!

Again, its the emotional make up. Men are more logical women are emotional. I am sure I will get bashed a bit for these comments, but its the truth. Maybe that is the reason that there wasn't an article about fatherhood and climbing being incompatible.

I would phrase it that men are more prone to a logical nature while women are more prone to an emotional nature. Which is to say that the varience within each sex is much greater than the average differences between the sexes. However this is not to say that the differences still do not exist. These differences are actually most biological.

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/

Radio lab does several fantastic pieces on this topic.
(I really wish I could remember which episode this was....)

For instance the way a man's brain is built, his stress levels will typically rise much more quickly than a woman's but at the same time his stress levels go down much more quickly. I believe that this gives the illusion that men are more logical and women more emotional. A man might be quick to rage but as soon as the situation is over, he goes back to his normal levels. A woman on the other hand might hold onto this emotion longer.

Scientists have theorised that this is due to evolution within a hunter/gatherer society.

However as a disclaimer I should reiterate that I do not believe that this difference is shows one sex as "superior" as both traits have their advantages in different situations nor do I believe that this absolutely means that men will always be (A) while women will always be (B). Ultimately we as human beings are influenced strongly by our bio-chemical programming but we are not slaves to it.

When was I accused of being Spock? Heh, Spock was my hero growing up.....this really disturbed my parents when I told them...heh.

I am an engineer.....I typically believe that the entire universe can be expressed in one giant differential equation....we just haven't gotten to that point yet so we try to write our equations for simple situations in the mean time ;)

Anyhow, my point was that there are bio-chemical differences between men and women but to let them control you to an ends which you don't want is just stupid.

I did not read that part where someone accused you of that or if I did, I skimmed over it. However you strike me as being overly emotional and illogical compared to others at least with respect to this topic.

But then again you come from the south....so I would be too if I experienced that enviroment growing up.

nevermind, i should have just called you a fuckwit in the first place.

I don't know "who" to respond to in this thread anymore (!!), but I just thought I would post a link from another climbing forum on essentially the same topic, specifically one which a few of you were talking about earlier: climbing and bringing the kids/being a parent as a climber.

Most of the people posting are men, so I thought some of you might be interested in reading some of their thoughts!

You will notice that many of them do express a lot of similar thoughts, feelings, emotions, adjustments, etc. as the women here.

clausti is actually very emotional AND coldly logical. That's why it's so frustrating to get into arguments with her. But I still love her just the same, for some reason.

I have only read bits of this thread so I'm sorry if I am repeating. I didn't start climbing until my two kids were about 8 and 10. I have often thought to myself "if I started climbing when I was much younger, before kids, would I have had them?" Well of course now that I have them i would never see it any other way....but I am not so sure my life would have went the same way had I found climbing first..

That being said, I do struggle with the balance of kids and climbing. My daughter plays competitive hockey for 10 months of the year. I enjoy watching her play and when I do make the decision to climb instead of go to a game I feel like I am missing part of her life. It won't be long until she will have her own life and I will no longer have to juggle family and sport. I don't want to regret missing that.

My husband is supportive and pushes me to go climb when I struggle with should I or shouldn't I? He doesn't climb so it makes it easier in that respect. But does he have the same guilt and same struggles when he takes time for himself. No, I'm sure he doesn't. Why? Because he doesn't have the same emotional make up. Although thinking of it, he doesn't miss any hockey games and he is always the one to drive her to practices. But if he could go golf in the winter instead of hockey, I'm sure he would! No guilt involved. Again, its the emotional make up. Men are more logical women are emotional. I am sure I will get bashed a bit for these comments, but its the truth. Maybe that is the reason that there wasn't an article about fatherhood and climbing being incompatible.

When was I accused of being Spock? Heh, Spock was my hero growing up.....this really disturbed my parents when I told them...heh.

I am an engineer.....I typically believe that the entire universe can be expressed in one giant differential equation....we just haven't gotten to that point yet so we try to write our equations for simple situations in the mean time ;)

Anyhow, my point was that there are bio-chemical differences between men and women but to let them control you to an ends which you don't want is just stupid.

And let me guess, you just graduated engineering and you still think that engineers are some of the most special and smart people out there. But below is the truth......

....The majority of engineers are socially stupid. Good at book smarts, but don't always know what's going on in the real world. You seem to fit that to a tee.

...Nope, been an engineer for almost 5 years now. And engineering is exactly about knowing what is going on in the real world.....

Indeed! Knowing about what's going on in the measurable, physical part of the world is what being an engineer is all about.

On the other hand, he whole unquantifiable social universe is not, typically, where the engineering brain has its most brilliant cognitive insights.

Some of the financial mess we're in right now is due to engineers becoming so seduced by the math that they thought they could predict the future of a complex social system (finance).

Just because we're currently ignorant of what the equations are, doesn't mean they don't exist ;) It's the way the world works. Call it divine. Call it a beautiful coincidence. It's still how the world works.

And pure and simple, we didn't know what we were doing. People made the very poor/greedy assumption that the market would never go down. Especially bad concidering the fact that the housing markets have crashed many times in the past.....

And let me guess, you just graduated engineering and you still think that engineers are some of the most special and smart people out there. But below is the truth......

....The majority of engineers are socially stupid. Good at book smarts, but don't always know what's going on in the real world. You seem to fit that to a tee.

Nope, been an engineer for almost 5 years now. And engineering is exactly about knowing what is going on in the real world..... However I would go to the point of saying that new-engineering graduates know very little about said world. The more experienced I get, the more I learn I don't actually know ;)

Indeed! Knowing about what's going on in the measurable, physical part of the world is what being an engineer is all about.

On the other hand, he whole unquantifiable social universe is not, typically, where the engineering brain has its most brilliant cognitive insights.

Some of the financial mess we're in right now is due to engineers becoming so seduced by the math that they thought they could predict the future of a complex social system (finance).

I like your attitude desertwanderer81, quite right too

....The majority of engineers are socially stupid. Good at book smarts, but don't always know what's going on in the real world. You seem to fit that to a tee.