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diplodocus
Sep 10, 2002, 5:33 PM
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when do you retire nuts & hexes, even though the cables look fine on the surface.
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wlderdude
Sep 10, 2002, 6:24 PM
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If you fall on them a lot or are otherwise worn.
As far as ageing goes, steel does not have an aging problem. Aluminum does, though. Aluminum aloys are kind of funny. They get stronger as they age (ageing), but they get to a point where time actaully makes them weaker (overageing). This takes many years. The time and stength difference depend on the alloy (what metals are mixed with the aluminum) and heat treatment.
Other than that, I really can't think of any reason to retire nuts.
Even then, I don't think the aluminum nut itself would be the weak link. If the crimper on the steel cable is Al, it might be affected, but those alloys rely on being soft, so aging should not be much of an issue. Rock climbing gear is really overdesigned, and it should be.
The weak point I found when I tested the nuts I made was the steel cable bend at the top of the nut. One of them broke at the loop where the carabiner clips in , but the other 5 or so I tested all broke there.
But I am not a professional. The gear companies recomend all gear be replaced after 10 years. Seems to me like lawyer talk, but there might be something to it.
That's about all I can think of.
[ This Message was edited by: wlderdude on 2002-09-10 11:28 ]
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climbincajun
Sep 10, 2002, 6:25 PM
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To my knowledge, unless there is damage to the cable (corrosion, kinks, etc), your chocks should last you many, many years. Even then, you can have the sling/cable replaced and the chock should be good as new.
If in doubt, though, go ahead and replace it. Stoppers are only like five bucks...well worth your peace of mind!
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rollingstone
Sep 10, 2002, 6:34 PM
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I must be really cheap, because I have been climbing on the same first generation Chouinard stoppers and hexentrics I bought back in '72, and '73. They still work fine, it seems to me.
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tradguy
Sep 10, 2002, 7:06 PM
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I don't think you really need to worry about it if the cables look fine. Of course, everyone has a different definition of "fine".
I once had a #6 DMM Walnut that managed to get a strand or two of the cable frayed, and I decided to replace it. After buying a new one, I took the old one and tried to cut through the cable. It seems to me there were like 7 bundles of about 10 strands each all wound up to form the cable. So with 1 or 2 broken, strength really would not have been a big deal. Using a wire cutter like the sort you get in a cheap toolkit, it took me about 10 minutes of crunching and twisting and yanking to cut through that cable (between the nut and the swage). Even then, there was enough tension/friction from the cable passing through the head of the nut twice that I was able to set it, clip in, and bounce my entire body weight up and down on the thing without the cable even moving.
Moral of the story, nuts are super tough.
Hexes should be the same deal if they are on cable, otherwise if they are slung, replace the cord as wear mandates, or maybe every 5 years or so just to be safe - slinging cord is cheap.
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rrrADAM
Sep 10, 2002, 7:24 PM
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NEVER !!!...
Start a "Paul (addiroids) box", and just throw them in there.
BTW... Paul, I have some spectra slings for you in my box.
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clymber
Sep 11, 2002, 1:40 AM
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its time to replace it when camhead takes a whipper on your # 3BD stopper and it takes 5 ppl to work on it and the use of a #11hex to get it out..good thing it was only a mental placement
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camhead
Sep 11, 2002, 1:52 AM
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yup, but it makes a hell of a rear view mirror ornament.
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apollodorus
Sep 11, 2002, 2:38 AM
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Most stoppers and hexes are 6061-T6, which is a pretty soft alloy. It won't ever become brittle unless you do some weird heat treatment to it. So, if the stopper is goobered, you can file it smooth and still use it.
A big hex that is noticably tweaked out of shape should probably go to your local climbing shop's Wall of Shame. Otherwise, the same thing applies.
One thing that probably deserves to be checked out is the effect that multiple shock loadings (i.e. whippers) have on the cable swage. I would guess that if you cranked on a wired stopper enough times, the swage would eventually pull out. Normally, the cable will break first, but if you hammer on the cable again and again, the swage might finally give out. This would probably be, like, more than 500 whippers, which most people would never take on the same piece. Or any combination of pieces.
And, as always, you should never trust just one piece of gear. Even a brand new piece has a small chance of being that one in a million that is bad (for whatever reason). Safe climbing is redundant climbing.
Better to always have backup pieces, than to fixate on the strength of any one piece.
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philbox
Moderator
Sep 11, 2002, 3:19 AM
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Old nuts and hexes never die they just become booty.
...Phil...
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addiroids
Sep 12, 2002, 4:20 AM
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I agree with rrradam on two things:
Metal never wears out. If they have rusted (which of course will never happen, I am just trying to make a joke), just file off the rust and you have a smaller stopper.
But seriously, a frayed wire or 5 is no big deal even if it is up near the nut/hex from being funked out. Just wrap a bit of duct tape or shoe goo around it and call it good.
If you need that "piece of mind" then just throw it in the Addiroids DB box and mail to me when it is full. I will pay shipping and give you that piece of mind you wanted. At least until you climb with me and see a rack made of 14 different brands of nuts.
And Adam, I just cleaned 5 nice pieces of webbing off the tree at Lunch Ledge. No reason for all that crap when 2 are still through the rap rings (that shouldn't even be there). The 5 I cleaned weren't even through the rap rings.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
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overlord
Sep 12, 2002, 3:52 PM
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i NEVER retire my nuts
dont have any hexes though
CLIMB ON
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mugnyte
Sep 12, 2002, 5:26 PM
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Consider this:
- The number of whippers generating big kN that you take each year.
- The times you are straining that same piece of gear.
- Over the years, the number of ropes you are using that have more/less elongation.
- The way nut's cable is pulled directly, or bent at some angle on that whipper.
I don't think one can bomb out a nut on most of our schedules, unless you chop it on some rock. Check you gear as much as you like, but its simply a tool thats easy and cheap to overengineer for climbing.
I think the rope (elongation/strength) is the fastest wearout point in the system, frankly.
And no, there cannot be a "time frame" on hardware, its just so open to the storage conditions, climbing schedule, details details.
climb on
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t-dog
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Dec 18, 2002, 11:25 PM
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Could you use a rope that should be retired due to normal wear and tear as a second rappel rope, or should it be made into a cloth-line or some other non-usefull stuff?
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philbox
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Dec 18, 2002, 11:41 PM
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This is the life cycle of one of my ropes.
Begins life in factory and Phil buys from shop and uses rope to lead climb.
When rope starts to look really tired/fuzzy/slight nicks in sheath, phil will then start to use rope as a toprope/secondary abseil rope.
When Phil no longer trusts rope to do its duty as top/rap secondary rope then Phil will use rope as a haul line. When rope becomes too dodgy for that duty then rope becomes tow rope in boot of car or otherwise use rope to haul light loads in his job.
Old ropes never die they just become useful for other things.
...Phil...
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repete
Dec 18, 2002, 11:46 PM
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Using an older worn rope for a rap rope should be fine as long as you cant see obvious major damage to the core ie. flat spots, core shots
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