Fun is not a word I would ever use in association with rappelling and my take on those who do is they are still novices and inexperienced in a variety of aspects that constitute a 'seasoned' climber.

Right, trying out some new and fancy rappell trick just when your tired, cold and scared is a recipie for disaster. Couldn't agree more.

Still I fail to see any real potential for disaster with the stone knot variant. That is apart from the ones inherit in rappelling in general. After all it is just two climbers rapping a single line each. The load on the anchor is doubled, of course but if THAT is an issue I wouldn't rap normally either without a back up.

Now there might be better (safer, more efficient) ways to speed up a long rappell. There definitely are worse ways. I'd rather see climbers simul-rap with a stone knot than skipping knotted ends and back up prussiks for example...

the problem with the rig isn't its reliability- indeed, correctly rigged, this thing looks almost bombproof. the problem is that it requires correct rigging, ostensibly to be applied under some duress if the need for speed were crucial; precisely when things have a tendency to go sideways- in the rigging stages.

also, something sherpa79 said made me a little uneasy. i may have misinterpreted his meaning, but it seemed like he was suggesting that a simul rap was subjected only to the static weight of two climbers. rappelling is far from static, and much like toprope falls, raps generate significantly more dynamic moments than most folks seem to intuit.

this brings us back to guran's suggestion that the "load on the anchor is doubled". true, but doubling a dynamic load is a lot more significant of a leap than doubling a static load.

by the way, there are plenty of places where, and conditions under which, one can't toss tails for a rappel if they are knotted; similarly, rigging prussik backups for rappels is completely outside of my experience, especially if a party is trying to save time.

repeatedly applying prussiks would burn way more time than checking each others' raps, and going one by one, on a simple double line rig that we are all familiar with, or a choked single line rap with a pull line, that many of us are familiar with.

of course, i did mention that i am a stick in the mud, right?

i do believe that we have crossed the threshold of "reasons not to do what could be sketchy" into, "reasonable preference to do what one is comfortable with".

and that's kind of the bottom line- the most efficient system is the fastest, cleanest system that everyone involved understands, can employ, and can service.

similarly, rigging prussik backups for rappels is completely outside of my experience, especially if a party is trying to save time.

Gotta say that all sounds like a complete clusterf#ck and accident just waiting to happen. You're talking different parties with potentially very different habits who may or may not know your drill. Overall it still sounds more like a situation to be avoided at all cost. It would take some pretty serious lightning / weather to make me join such a conga line.

We just had a only-one-loop-clipped rappelling fatality at our crag a couple of weeks ago - decidedly un-fun in every respect.

Come to think about it, the only time simul-rapping would save more than marginal time is if there are more than two climbers. A party of four might save some time on a long rapell by going two at a time.

the best is when climbers simul rappel every route at a single pitch crag to look cool ...

without prussics of course

well yes...

but if you're not right next to them during the rap, how do you do the side by side flask swap?

I hear we get kewl points for that move, and a prize if we can include action shots to accompany third party witness reports....

cheers

LS

I almost always use this method when I am at Stone Mountain NC, on multi-pitch slab. Saves a lot of time, so you can climb more routes.

Yore gunna DIE...