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ceebo
Feb 18, 2012, 12:58 AM
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Having a hard time tracking this down. I am interested to learn more about all the muscles we use in climbing and what are in need of off training.
My climbing is very varied and i feel i need to train far moree antags than i currently do.
So far all i do is push ups, planks, wrist rotation with hammer and reverse curls. I also take collagen pills for tendons along with glucosamine and chrodite or what not for joints.
I have had issues with knee joint in past along with some tendon issues in upper legs. However i have no clue what so ever on what to train for this. I also would like to know some more core balancing and some more shoulder work. Also anything else i may have missed.
Ty for any help.
(This post was edited by ceebo on Feb 18, 2012, 1:02 AM)
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Player
Feb 19, 2012, 7:03 AM
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I do squats and lunges and leg extensions for knee joints. My doctor told me the key for keeping my knees healthy was to strengthen my quads. Not sure if that applies for you as well.
There's a decent section on this stuff in the book "training for climibing" by horst.
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sungam
Feb 19, 2012, 9:14 AM
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Hey Ceebo, Nicros has an excellent section on exercises for injury prevention on their website.
See under "Injury": http://www.nicros.com/articles/
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ceebo
Feb 19, 2012, 8:07 PM
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Thnx, got some good shoulder stuff out of that.
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altelis
Feb 20, 2012, 9:12 PM
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Something to keep in mind about knee health in healthy athletic types, especially males...usually problems don't develop because of lack of quad strength globally but rather due to asymmetric strength between the medial and lateral components. This causes improper tracking of the patella. Just going to the gym and doing general quad exercises can/does actually compound the problem rather than solve it.
Its important to recognize the imbalance and focus and exercises that will selectively strengthen the relatively weaker side...
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onceahardman
Feb 20, 2012, 10:12 PM
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altelis wrote: Something to keep in mind about knee health in healthy athletic types, especially males...usually problems don't develop because of lack of quad strength globally but rather due to asymmetric strength between the medial and lateral components. This causes improper tracking of the patella. Just going to the gym and doing general quad exercises can/does actually compound the problem rather than solve it. Its important to recognize the imbalance and focus and exercises that will selectively strengthen the relatively weaker side...
Well, now you've done it, altelis...
There are some who don't think it is possible to selectively target, say, vastus medialis while not firing vastus lateralis. There is actually poor research supporting the ability to selectively train this way. One way that has a little bit of support involves co-contracting the adductors with the quads to increase V.M. firing.
What seems clear at this point, though, is to train primarily in closed chain if you are training to improve athletic performance and minimize injury risk.
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onceahardman
Feb 20, 2012, 10:22 PM
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I hadn't responded previously to this thread because you wanted a "full list". The list of injuries is pretty long, so the list of preventatives is also pretty long, and can never really be considered "full".
I like the idea of doing wrist extensions, elbow extensions, planks, squats, lunges, etc.
EDIT: how did I forget lots of rotator cuff exercises, and exercises for the scapular stabilizers?
I also like full-body, multi joint movements like deads, power cleans, and even things like Turkish get ups for core strength.
It remains important to train the hammies, but newer research seems to suggest that ham curls may not be the best way, and stick to lunges, squats, stiff leg deads, etc. I've seen several hammie injuries from heel hooks, which suggest the hammies need to be stronger.
There is NO guarantee (of course) that resistance training would have prevented any particular injury. But there IS good research showing that people who resistance train are injured less frequently. Which lets you climb more. Which is when you get better at climbing.
(This post was edited by onceahardman on Feb 20, 2012, 10:33 PM)
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altelis
Feb 20, 2012, 10:22 PM
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onceahardman wrote: altelis wrote: Something to keep in mind about knee health in healthy athletic types, especially males...usually problems don't develop because of lack of quad strength globally but rather due to asymmetric strength between the medial and lateral components. This causes improper tracking of the patella. Just going to the gym and doing general quad exercises can/does actually compound the problem rather than solve it. Its important to recognize the imbalance and focus and exercises that will selectively strengthen the relatively weaker side... Well, now you've done it, altelis... There are some who don't think it is possible to selectively target, say, vastus medialis while not firing vastus lateralis. There is actually poor research supporting the ability to selectively train this way. One way that has a little bit of support involves co-contracting the adductors with the quads to increase V.M. firing. What seems clear at this point, though, is to train primarily in closed chain if you are training to improve athletic performance and minimize injury risk.
Not that I'm arguing, just trying to clarify- when you say "there is poor research" are you saying there is a paucity of research at all, or that there is a paucity of good research?
And I suppose I did sort of mis-state what I was going for. None of the orthopedists I've worked with suggest selectively targeting the lateral or medial extensors.
My understanding is that these type of issues tend to arise in athletes who don't do much strength training but are strong because they simply "do their sports". Therefore, they suggest closed-chain training. The idea being that open-chain exercises will tend to allow a continuation of movements that have already lead to an imbalance while close-chain training is less likely to do this.
Is this more in line with the research than how I described it previously?
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onceahardman
Feb 20, 2012, 10:31 PM
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Sorry, I didn't mean to sound argumentative.
There really is a paucity of research supporting the idea of firing some of the quads, while selectively avoiding firing others. It can be done with e-stim, but that will do nothing to improve function.
Nice talking to you again. Are you done with school?
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altelis
Feb 20, 2012, 10:33 PM
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Didn't sound argumentative at all- I was just trying to clarify!
Not done with school yet, one more year. Just starting to figure out next years schedule...trying to get into ortho, actually...surprise? Hehe...
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yodadave
Feb 20, 2012, 11:43 PM
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yodadave wrote: altelis wrote: Its important to recognize the imbalance and focus and exercises that will selectively strengthen the relatively weaker side... Any tips on how to do this? Is it something a non medical professional can diagnose? torn ACl on one knee torn meniscus on the other..... motivated to know about knee health 
How about if I say "Please"?
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onceahardman
Feb 21, 2012, 12:24 AM
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Dave, there is plenty of info out there. Ride the bike a lot. Do closed chain resistive work. Learn what "closed chain" means, which does not require a medical degree.
Stay lean.
All closed kinetic chain means, is to train with the bottom of your foot in contact with the earth, or perhaps in contact with a movable plate, like a leg press or (better?) a squatting sled.
Or a bicycle pedal.
Don't do quad extensions, ESPECIALLY with a torn ACL, and a torn meniscus. Keep your hammies strong.
It's really not that difficult. Go see a PT for a single visit. Maybe a good athletic trainer. Don't take advice from a body builder (for this issue) as they have different motivations than you. You don't want big muscles, you want optimal function.
Keep in mind that sometimes, despite doing everything according to the best available evidence, your knees still take a shit.
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