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stick233
Jul 28, 2003, 7:22 PM
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Here's one for Adam or Jay...
So which is better? Powerade or Gatorade? Also, I drink Cytomax after a day at the crag. It's expensive, but seems to hydrate me very fast. Any thoughts???
Oh, and my handy item i keep is a pocketknife so i can cut away from my dad when two wayward climbers fall and snag my rope... that cam'll never hold!!!
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whitefingers
Jul 28, 2003, 7:22 PM
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Since this has turned into a hydration post, I have a question. Saturday I took the firemans physical agility test and drank (over a period of about 2 hours) a 32 oz gatorade fierce prior to the start, along with quite a bit of water ( 90 degrees with full bunker gear on :shock: ) The test was 45 minutes long ending with a 100 ft charged hose drag and a 165 lb dummy drag. prior to the dummy drag I felt very nausiated and feel it had something to do with the gatorade. Any ideas or was it just from fatigue??
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gretchino
Jul 28, 2003, 7:27 PM
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In reply to: camelback imo are great to have while climbing.
Unless you're doing tight chimney's :shock: POP! That's no fun!
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sauron
Jul 28, 2003, 7:34 PM
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In reply to: Here's one for Adam or Jay... So which is better? Powerade or Gatorade? Also, I drink Cytomax after a day at the crag. It's expensive, but seems to hydrate me very fast. Any thoughts???
Gatorade.
Powerade has too much sugar, which is why the n00bs like it so much.
- d.
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hatice
Jul 28, 2003, 7:45 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: When it's hot out I freeze my water in my nalgene bottles and it makes a nice cold drink for most of the day. Does that actually work? I've been too afraid to try it. I know Nalgenes are indestructable because they are tempered on the outside, but I wasn't sure if they were tempered on the inside too allowing them to withstand the expansion of freezing water.
The easiest solution.... dont fill the bottle all the way... :roll:
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bandycoot
Jul 28, 2003, 7:53 PM
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gretchino wrote:
In reply to: piton wrote: camelback imo are great to have while climbing. Unless you're doing tight chimney's POP! That's no fun!
A camel back can easily be clipped to a 2-4' sling, or a daisy chain and dragged in a chimney. I do this often and it works very well! I think that they are one of the best widgets for rockclimbing!
Josh
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texasclimber
Jul 28, 2003, 8:18 PM
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My useful thing is a freakin' sweat towel! IT is damn hot here right now and without one I would be dipping my whole body in chalk :!:
Besides that, I bought a platypus plastic sack with handels from REI that costs 1/4 of a camel back. If it punctures or breaks, REI will take it back and give me a new one...God bless the man who came up with "100% satisfaction guaranteed or your money back!"
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kamofladge
Jul 28, 2003, 9:22 PM
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:D It is all about the M.R.E.!! These are the Meals Ready to Eat that the Military gives to thier units. Now I know people have tried them before and they say they are nasty and taste like cardboard. But when I am at the crag and I got the munchies I am not leaving to go down the mountian to get food. ANd the greatest thing about them is that they fit very well into my pack and don't weigh very much at all!! So it might taste a little wierd but it is a sure cure for the munchies!! :D
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rrrADAM
Jul 28, 2003, 9:27 PM
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Neither really... Both are made with high fructose corn syrup, and your body has to work to metabolize it too I think. Refined sugar is more easily metabolized.
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petsfed
Jul 28, 2003, 9:33 PM
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In reply to: :D It is all about the M.R.E.!! These are the Meals Ready to Eat that the Military gives to thier units. Now I know people have tried them before and they say they are nasty and taste like cardboard. But when I am at the crag and I got the munchies I am not leaving to go down the mountian to get food. ANd the greatest thing about them is that they fit very well into my pack and don't weigh very much at all!! So it might taste a little wierd but it is a sure cure for the munchies!! :D
Try carrying them for a week and you might change your tune. None better when weight isn't an issue though. Very little work involved in preparation. Just a ton of trash to deal with.
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elrojobdugs
Jul 28, 2003, 9:34 PM
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when its not too hot i take two nalgenes full of cold water and split one crystal light small pack... any flavor... among the two... a cold drink with a great taste.
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toejam
Jul 28, 2003, 9:44 PM
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On the subject of nalgenes breaking, I've been using them for about 20 years and have seen a few casualties. The old white ones simply rot and can be crushed by hand after a time. I've only seen two others get damaged, one by a bear after coolaid residue, and the other by me, using it as a hammer :\.
I second the towel recommendation, sweat control and handy insect flicker.
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bsignorelli
Jul 28, 2003, 10:05 PM
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In reply to: A camel back can easily be clipped to a 2-4' sling, or a daisy chain and dragged in a chimney. I do this often and it works very well! I think that they are one of the best widgets for rockclimbing!
I'm looking at getting a Camelbak (or similar) and was wondering what size do you find yourself using?
50oz? 70oz? 100oz?
I was figuring on a 100oz because I can go through a lot of water in a day.
But how much storage capacity (dry goods, not water) do you need/use on all day multipitch trad climbs?
The small ones seem to have a 200-300 cubic inch capacity and the bigger ones get up to 2000 cubic inches.
Thanks,
Bryan
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leaverbiner
Jul 28, 2003, 10:16 PM
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In reply to: I'm looking at getting a Camelbak (or similar) and was wondering what size do you find yourself using? 50oz? 70oz? 100oz? I was figuring on a 100oz because I can go through a lot of water in a day. But how much storage capacity (dry goods, not water) do you need/use on all day multipitch trad climbs? The small ones seem to have a 200-300 cubic inch capacity and the bigger ones get up to 2000 cubic inches. Thanks, Bryan
I bought a 100oz Camelbak with only a modest amout of additional storage, damn I wish I could remeber the name of the pack, the Mule I think . . . but when I need a larger pack for my trip I just take the bladder out and install it in my bigger pack. It's really not difficult, even if the pack isn;t "designed" to hold a bladder, and it is much cheaper than buying "bladder-ready" packs for all of your different activities.
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dirtineye
Jul 28, 2003, 10:22 PM
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Well rr, if you ahd had the courses I have had, you'd know that power ade and gator ade are cut in half with water and only given at half time by the good trainers, adn the mostly athletes need water only, and that marathoners are the ones who need some electrolyte replacement, and there is a lot more, but I'd say you need educating on the subject.
Back in the late 70's a track and football atlete in the south basically killed himself by working out two a day in august and drinking gator-ade instread of water.
It is also documented that too much gator ade can cause stress fractures in your bones, because of the excess phosphorus which facilitates decalcification.
I repeat, NO good trainer would tell you to take any extra salt. That went out over 30 years ago.
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keinangst
Jul 28, 2003, 10:40 PM
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One 3-litre Nalgene hydration bladder with 75-100% strength Gatorade (powder mix saves you about 80% of your $$ vs. buying pre-mixed). So how can Gatorade be made with HF corn syrup if it can be sold in powdered form? I thought HFCS was only syrup (hence the clever name)...
I also tote along a big 1.5L Nalgene of plain filtered water, which is great for additional hydration and taking care of the people who forgot theirs.
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rrrADAM
Jul 28, 2003, 11:01 PM
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In reply to: Well rr, if you ahd had the courses I have had, you'd know that power ade and gator ade are cut in half with water and only given at half time by the good trainers, adn the mostly athletes need water only, and that marathoners are the ones who need some electrolyte replacement, and there is a lot more, but I'd say you need educating on the subject. Back in the late 70's a track and football atlete in the south basically killed himself by working out two a day in august and drinking gator-ade instread of water. It is also documented that too much gator ade can cause stress fractures in your bones, because of the excess phosphorus which facilitates decalcification. I repeat, NO good trainer would tell you to take any extra salt. That went out over 30 years ago.
I guess some people just can't be wrong. :roll:
"Courses you've had ???" Like I said, Jay is a Nutrition Scientist, so what cousres have you had ??? What papers have you written and had published ??? Maybe you should "clean the dirt from your eyes" and read some of his. Did you read his reply to this thread regarding salt and carbohydrates ???
I didn't say to add a shit load of salt... I said a "dash". To be specific, I use about a 1/4 tea spoon for a gallon.
I also said "KoolAid half strength", which sounds about the same as GatorADe half strength.
Again... Clean the "dirtnYOUReye", and read the details my friend.
It's all good though brutha... You go sodium free, and I'll go with a dash. :wink:
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jt512
Jul 28, 2003, 11:09 PM
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In reply to: Well rr, if you ahd had the courses I have had, you'd know that power ade and gator ade are cut in half with water and only given at half time by the good trainers, adn the mostly athletes need water only, and that marathoners are the ones who need some electrolyte replacement, and there is a lot more, but I'd say you need educating on the subject.
Well, educate us. Please provide citations to scientific papers that document your claims.
In reply to: It is also documented that too much gator ade can cause stress fractures in your bones, because of the excess phosphorus which facilitates decalcification.
That one I'd really like to see documentaion for!
In reply to: I repeat, NO good trainer would tell you to take any extra salt. That went out over 30 years ago.
Maybe it went out 30 years ago when you were in school. I'm not a sport nutritionist, but a quick glance at a couple of recent review papers on the subject suggests you are wrong.
Electrolyte replacement during exercise probably isn't that important in most sports, but I suspect that for all-day climbing in hot weather, it would be beneficial.
-Jay
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shank
Jul 28, 2003, 11:23 PM
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I always take my cheap hydration pac, that I got
here, with me to the crag.
I just fill it with water though.
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imaclima
Jul 28, 2003, 11:25 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Eventually, your Nalgene bottles will crack unlikely..... never had one of mine break on me and i treat them pretty badly.... dropped one like 10ft on to rocks once (unintentionally of course) nothing happened..... and if some thing does (and it doesn't matter what); Nalgene will replace it for free and usually will throw in an extra one or two for the inconvenience. Just to follow up on this: I ran over mine with a 3/4 ton pickup just to see what would happen, and while it did put an irreperable dent in it, it did not crack. They are reasonably indestructable.
Just another tale of their indestructability- dropped mine an entire 60m pitch off of High E at the Gunks and I still use it.
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dirtineye
Jul 29, 2003, 12:29 AM
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Here we go again.
I am NOT doing your homework for you.
The kid at AUburn university in the late 70's or early 80's should not be hard to find, it was big news.
It should be easy to check out the bit about phosphorus and bone decalcification though, it happend to me around 1980 and that was the diagnosis BY a DOCTOR. That too much gator ade woudl do this was common knowledge at the time in the sports medicine community.
We were taught in Prevention and Treatment of athletic injuries, by the head trainer who worked with one of the premier sports medicin doctors and facilities in the country at UAB at the time, most of what i mentioned in the other post.
The only people who want you to drink a lot of gator ade or power ade are the people who sell it. As far as sodium replacement, you almost never need that, everythign that grows that you eat has sodium in it.
YOur body is very good at maintaining its electrolyte balance. If you are doing exercise comparable to runnign a marathon, you need some replacement, but most people including climbers don't need any as long as they have a normal diet.
Anything but water puts more strain on your kidneys than you need. The problems of extre salt are so well known I can't beleive anyone in this day and age is actually adding salt as a suplement.
The biggest problem is dehydration.
This is very old news.
Enjoy yoiur salt.
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pehperboy
Jul 29, 2003, 12:34 AM
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Let's see. After making sure I've got the essentials in my crag bag like slings, 'biners, helmet, ropes, draws, chalk bag, etc. I run around looking for several items: Nalgene and/or my Source-Vagabond 2-litre (for long hot days); sun block; Swiss Army knife (who knows?); head lamp (not unusual on evening climbs to trapse back the the truck as darkness sets in); one or two Clif bars; first aid kit; 2 pulleys (just in case...).
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jt512
Jul 29, 2003, 12:41 AM
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In reply to: Here we go again. I am NOT doing your homework for you.
Standard line for "I have no documentation."
In reply to: The kid at AUburn university in the late 70's or early 80's should not be hard to find, it was big news. It should be easy to check out the bit about phosphorus and bone decalcification though, it happend to me around 1980 and that was the diagnosis BY a DOCTOR. That too much gator ade woudl do this was common knowledge at the time in the sports medicine community.
You seem to be stuck in the 80s. Take a look at some current research.
In reply to: We were taught in Prevention and Treatment of athletic injuries, by the head trainer who worked with one of the premier sports medicin doctors and facilities in the country at UAB at the time, most of what i mentioned in the other post.
At what time, the '80s again?
In reply to: The biggest problem is dehydration.
Uh huh, and sodium has what effects on water uptake and retention, again?
In reply to: This is very old news.
Precisely.
-Jay
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jt512
Jul 29, 2003, 12:53 AM
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Here dirtineye, I'll do your homework for you. Note that the following was published in 1996.
--begin quoted material--
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1996 Jan;28(1):i-vii.
American College of Sports Medicine position stand. Exercise and fluid
replacement.
Convertino VA, Armstrong LE, Coyle EF, Mack GW, Sawka MN, Senay LC Jr, Sherman
WM.
It is the position of the American College of Sports Medicine that adequate fluid replacement helps maintain hydration and, therefore, promotes the health, safety, and optimal physical performance of individuals participating in regular physical activity. This position statement is based on a comprehensive review and interpretation of scientific literature concerning the influence of fluid replacement on exercise performance and the risk of thermal injury associated with dehydration and hyperthermia. Based on available evidence, the American College of Sports Medicine makes the following general recommendations on the amount and composition of fluid that should be ingested in preparation for, during, and after exercise or athletic competition: ... 3) During exercise, athletes should start drinking early and at regular intervals in an attempt to consume fluids at a rate sufficient to replace all the water lost through sweating (i.e., body weight loss), or consume the maximal amount that can be tolerated. ... 5) Addition of proper amounts of carbohydrates and/or electrolytes to a fluid replacement solution is recommended for exercise events of duration greater than 1 h since it does not significantly impair water delivery to the body and may enhance performance. ... 6) During intense exercise lasting longer than 1 h, it is recommended that carbohydrates be ingested at a rate of 30-60 g.h(-1) to maintain oxidation of carbohydrates and delay fatigue. This rate of carbohydrate intake can be achieved without compromising fluid delivery by drinking 600-1200 ml.h(-1) of solutions containing 4%-8% carbohydrates (g.100 ml(-1)). ... 7) Inclusion of sodium (0.5-0.7 g.1(-1) of water) in the rehydration solution ingested during exercise lasting longer than 1 h is recommended since it may be advantageous in enhancing palatability, promoting fluid retention, and possibly preventing hyponatremia in certain individuals who drink excessive quantities of fluid....
--end quoted material--
-Jay
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dirtineye
Jul 29, 2003, 1:00 AM
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You have offered nothing in support of taking what amounts to salt supplements. Keep you inuendo to yourself please.
I doubt you'll be happy with any source I provide, but maybe I'll post one anyway. This one is usually good.
http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1999/11_99/schwellnus.htm
Knock yoursaelf out.
The article about the same subject as yours makes no mention iabout adding sodium.
They do mention adequate nutrition and fluids however. Note the date on this article.
The lines you highlghted sound a lot like shilling for the sport drink industry to me. Curiously, you stopped highlighting just where the equivocation begins...
since it MAY be advantageous in enhancing palatability, promoting fluid retention, and POSSIBLY preventing hyponatremia in CERTAIN individuals who drink EXCESSIVE quantities of fluid....
Usually the kind of fluid retention you get from excess sodim is not a good thing. Enhance palatability?? More catering to the industry. Water is great, why does it need to be more palatable? Oh yeah, it has to be certain peopel who drink too much anyway...
Keep trying, if this is the qualirty of your homework, you are failing LOL
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