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pinktricam
Jan 27, 2004, 5:23 PM
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I'm not going to take an "us vs. them" mentality, but for me personally, it's a matter of aesthetics. I love going to the rock, climbing the rock, then leaving the rock as I found it...without a trace of my having been there. But then again, I learned to climb in North Carolina where Trad rules.
(That's not to say I'm not grateful for the occasional bolt I find on a long runout! :wink: )
I won't disparage sport climbers (I'll probably do it some day), but I'm glad that there are separate areas for each style.
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dynoguy
Jan 27, 2004, 5:29 PM
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In reply to: dammit. curt beat me to it. bouldering gives you hella-licious power, gymnastic agility, and the opportunity to finely hone the intricacies of movement over rock in a controlled environment. trad gives you endurance, balls, commitment and mental stamina. now... what does sport give you that trad and bouldering do not? how does it contribute to your overall well being as a climber?
I believe bouldering and sport are almost identical. They both make you concentrate on the beauty of movement without worrying about protection or route finding.
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camhead
Jan 27, 2004, 5:51 PM
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no, sport and bouldering are NOT identical. you did not read my original post properly.
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madmax
Jan 27, 2004, 9:49 PM
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In reply to: dean potter and leo houlding are two folks that will NOT make your list, and for the reasons that curt stated, I have a lot more respect for them.
hmmm. Last time I was at Mill Creek, I remember seeing Dean "sport climbing" there.
Sport climbing does a lot for ones trad climbing. It helps build endurance, confidence on the sharp end, and power. ALL the best trad climbers sport climb as well.
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angry
Jan 27, 2004, 10:19 PM
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Curt, you are right. Everyone would be wise to agree with you and end this pointless thread now.
And to all you sport climbers who think you have a monopoly on beauty and gymnastics I have one question. When was the last time you were completely upside down on a climb, doing the splits, or touching your head with your toe? Since when is a high-step or a drop-knee gymnastic. Man I know approaches that require more flexibility. When you sporties learn to place gear off a shin/fist stack...we'll talk.
Boulder for power, climbing wall for some endurance over winter, Utah desert for real endurance, and climb trad year round cause it's fun. Sport climb to ummmm, masterbate...no...jack off...no. I'm stumped, why would anyone sport climb.
Ever notice that trad climbers never have to defend themselves on this forum?
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caughtinside
Jan 27, 2004, 10:25 PM
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In reply to: Ever notice that trad climbers never have to defend themselves on this forum?
That's kind of funny. THere's been lots of trad 'defending' in this thread. Including you. If you think you're impressing people by saying sport climbing isn't climbing, think again.
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roughster
Jan 27, 2004, 10:34 PM
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In reply to: You need to go back to what I consider to be the golden age of rock climbing, which came to a close in the late 1970s... Curt
Curt, its great to be mindful of the past, but by keeping your head stuck in it, you are doomed to repeat it. Lift your head up and see what today has to offer. Drop the security blanket of "The Good 'Ole Days".
Your Golden Age is gone. For many of us, the Golden Age is here now.
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rmiller
Jan 27, 2004, 10:35 PM
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I would agree with you okinawatricam. Trad and sport do influence each other positively, both physically and philosophically. Bouldering helps with sport and trad. Trad helps with sport and bouldering, etc., etc. It is my belief that those who focus solely on one aspect of climbing over another are narrow minded and unable/unwilling to look at the big picture. Maybe it is because they have associated their "self, ego, psyche" or whatever one wants to call it, with that particular style of climbing and individually proclaimed true philosophy and ethical code. Therefore, to acknowledge that other forms of climbing, outside of trad and their authoratative and arrogant assertions, have valid truths and meaning would be to admit that the person's "self" is in fact, fragile. And this just might be too anxiety producing to conciouisly admit. In result, you have dogmatic beliefs and arguements that will continue until time ends.
Ronnie
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dingus
Jan 27, 2004, 10:40 PM
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Dear Curt,
Sport climbing definitely helps my trad climbing and vice versa. Stylistic considerations of decades gone by really have nothing to do with it. If you can make a convincing argument as to why sport climbing has NOT helped my trad climbing and vice versa, I would dearly love to read it.
DMT
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roughster
Jan 27, 2004, 10:48 PM
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In reply to: Dear Curt, Sport climbing definitely helps my trad climbing and vice versa. Stylistic considerations of decades gone by really have nothing to do with it. If you can make a convincing argument as to why sport climbing has NOT helped my trad climbing and vice versa, I would dearly love to read it. DMT
Dingus I can tell you that! Because sport climbing is fun, you trad climb less and sport climb more :lol:
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boulderqt
Jan 27, 2004, 10:49 PM
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Ok perhaps i'm just being crazy since i have never climbed trad or sport but how on earth are you comparing sport to bouldering. :? i can see where someone might compare trad to sport. but come on not to bouldering there has to be a big difference there.
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caughtinside
Jan 27, 2004, 10:53 PM
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In reply to: perhaps i'm just being crazy
Or dumb.
Just because there's no rope, there's no similarities?
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okinawatricam
Jan 27, 2004, 11:18 PM
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The world of trad climbing is no longer limited to the cracks: many great Trad areas have nothing but face climbs that need to be protected with gear.
About Sport and bouldering:
I do see some great similarities between sport and bouldering, but those are also seen on trad line. All three are movement on rock. In Josh, I have bouldered slabs, on Woodson bouldered cracks, pulled huge roofs at the gunks on gear, crimp up sparsely protect face at Sunset, and jammed cracks at High Wire crag (Sport area) in colorado.
What allowed me to do all of this was blending the various forms of climbing. I had fun doing all three.
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curt
Jan 27, 2004, 11:19 PM
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In reply to: Dear Curt, Sport climbing definitely helps my trad climbing and vice versa. Stylistic considerations of decades gone by really have nothing to do with it. If you can make a convincing argument as to why sport climbing has NOT helped my trad climbing and vice versa, I would dearly love to read it. DMT
I'll stick by this statement that I made on the first page of this thread:
In reply to: Real climbing (trad) and sport climbing are at odds with one another on a fundamental philosophical basis.
And I fully realize this battle was fought and lost 20 years ago. That doesn't mean that everytime some nitwit posts something about how "Sport" and "Trad" compliment each other--I'm going to agree with him.
Dingus,
I will also concede that sport climbing will help make you stronger. So will climbing in the gym, pilates, pullups, campus boards etc. That doesn't mean that I would make the claim that all these things are symbiotic compliments to Trad climbing. I see them as merely various means of training for climbing.
Curt
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caughtinside
Jan 27, 2004, 11:25 PM
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That's a cute artificial distinction! Sport climbing makes you stronger but it's still not climbing.
Hey, there were no bouldering pads 20 years ago. Draw another artificial line.
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okinawatricam
Jan 27, 2004, 11:29 PM
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If sport climbing is good training for Trad, wouldn't that mean that it compliments Trad climbing. The two seem to have a direct correlation. Really the only difference between trad and sport is the gear issue.
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curt
Jan 27, 2004, 11:45 PM
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In reply to: That's a cute artificial distinction! Sport climbing makes you stronger but it's still not climbing.
Really--is that what constitutes climbing? Anything that makes you stronger? Geez, I never really considered pull-ups and Nautilus workouts climbing before. Thanks for setting me straight. :lol:
Curt
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andy_lemon
Jan 27, 2004, 11:46 PM
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I agree with Eman... trad and sport do COMPLIMENT each other, even though they are two different things.
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chadmartin
Jan 27, 2004, 11:46 PM
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I actually have to agree with you on that one, as also bouldering helps improve your overall performance in climbing, and sometimes, even helps raise your grade!
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curt
Jan 27, 2004, 11:50 PM
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In reply to: If sport climbing is good training for Trad, wouldn't that mean that it compliments Trad climbing. The two seem to have a direct correlation. Really the only difference between trad and sport is the gear issue.
Yes. That's why flying over Mt. Everest in a jet and climbing it are really the same thing. The only difference being a "gear" issue.
Curt
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calamity_chk
Jan 27, 2004, 11:53 PM
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while i would be willing to agree that bouldering and trad compliment each other, i daresay that, in the mind of a tradwhore, trad and sport are diabolically opposed, and there's not much that sportos can do about it - well, except maybe coming to terms with being called names or drop the lycra and chop some bolts.
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dwise
Jan 28, 2004, 12:07 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: If sport climbing is good training for Trad, wouldn't that mean that it compliments Trad climbing. The two seem to have a direct correlation. Really the only difference between trad and sport is the gear issue. Yes. That's why flying over Mt. Everest in a jet and climbing it are really the same thing. The only difference being a "gear" issue. Curt
And you claim that MY analogy has nothing to do with the topic?? I'm sensing some pent-up frustrations brother, when was the last time you went climbing?
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bobd1953
Jan 28, 2004, 12:13 AM
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In reply to: while i would be willing to agree that bouldering and trad compliment each other, i daresay that, in the mind of a tradwhore, trad and sport are diabolically opposed, and there's not much that sportos can do about it - well, except maybe coming to terms with being called names or drop the lycra and chop some bolts.
Where in god-name do you get your information. Some of the best trad-climbers in the world (Tommy Caldwell for one) sport-climb and pursue other types of climbing. Your somewhat limited view of sport-climbing needs to expands.
Just a few questions for you: How can climbing a lot of hard pitches not improve you climbing ability and just how many trad pitches have you led in short climbing career?
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caughtinside
Jan 28, 2004, 12:14 AM
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In reply to: while i would be willing to agree that bouldering and trad compliment each other, i daresay that, in the mind of a tradwhore, trad and sport are diabolically opposed, and there's not much that sportos can do about it - well, except maybe coming to terms with being called names or drop the lycra and chop some bolts.
I can deal with it, if you can deal with being a closed minded idiot.
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caughtinside
Jan 28, 2004, 12:15 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: while i would be willing to agree that bouldering and trad compliment each other, i daresay that, in the mind of a tradwhore, trad and sport are diabolically opposed, and there's not much that sportos can do about it - well, except maybe coming to terms with being called names or drop the lycra and chop some bolts. Where in god-name do you get your information. Some of the best trad-climbers in the world (Tommy Caldwell for one) sport-climb and pursue other types of climbing. Your somewhat limited view of sport-climbing needs to expands. Just a few questions for you: How can climbing a lot of hard pitches not improve you climbing ability and just how many trad pitches have you led in short climbing career?
Oooh! Buuuuurn!
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Re: Sport and Trad Compliment one another
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