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mackavus
May 21, 2004, 4:56 PM
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AMEN.
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rrrADAM
May 21, 2004, 5:26 PM
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In reply to: I'll bite... Ok. In this case I totally side with Rob. I agree with rrrAdam for just about any other place, but I think that PA might be a special case here. The PA database needs some serious work, SERIOUS WORK. There are tons of areas listed with no information at all... sometimes I would like to check out these areas.... but where is it? What is it? Who the hell adds this stuff like this? I really wish that the manager would at least DO SOMETHING about all problems with the PA database... I also would LOVE to see a rating system, just like we rate routes we could rate locales. I think that we should also have a mandatory access issues part of the main page for climbing areas. People are still going to go to places that are closed to climbing (I will confess I have done it in the past) but I think that in a state like PA which has many many areas that are access sensitive, we whould at least be presented with the issues before we unknowingly tresspass where we are not wanted and get in deep s---. Peace :D Edited to add more info.
It's the job of the climbers in PA to fill this info out.... Access details, directions, routes, etc...
Who do you propose should do it for you ???
States like Ca, Ut, and Co haver very active members who diligently keep the info updated, and detailed. These three states also have active State Managers. I have not seen the PA manager weigh in yet on these issues. But bear in mind that it's not the job of the MGR to input all the info, as it's impossible... I am the MGR of California, and we have over 490 Areas, MFRs, and Retailers, and I cannot possibly be familiar with all of them. I do get PMs regularly from users who tell me stuff is incorrect or duplicated, and I take appropriate action. (Hint... Remember I said to contact the Area MGR or the RDB Administrator ??? Ca users don't just bitch about duplicate or errant stuff in the RDB, they contact the MGR. :wink: ) In other words, get into the solution and start adding the info all of you seem to know.
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phlsphr
May 21, 2004, 6:08 PM
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As the PA manager doesn't seem to be participating in this thread let me ask you what you, rrradam, what would you do if someone added a bunch of areas to the CA database with NO information whatsoever other than a name? Take a look at runitout's entries. Do you have ANY listings in CA like that? Let's face it, there is SOMEWHERE someone could climb in virtually every town in CA. So can I just get out my atlas and add areas at will? I bet I could really increase my "ranking" that way. Wouldn't that be impressive!
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mr8615
May 21, 2004, 6:40 PM
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In reply to: In other words, get into the solution and start adding the info all of you seem to know.
The problem for me is that I can't add info for a place I don't know how to find and don't know if it's even listed under a city within 100 miles of the climbing location. I am all for helping, I'd love to go visit the areas that he's listed and add tons of info, pictures, gps location, access issues, etc. I'm just unable to find the location with merely the name and a random city in PA. Would anyone else be interested in helping me with 'fixing' whenindoubt's shitty rating boosters? Does anyone know of locations, or access issues with the areas he's listed? Let's get together and do something to clean up this bs instead of bi*ching about it all the time. I'm free this weekend.
Mark
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mackavus
May 21, 2004, 6:49 PM
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In reply to: It's the job of the climbers in PA to fill this info out.... Access details, directions, routes, etc... Who do you propose should do it for you ??? States like Ca, Ut, and Co haver very active members who diligently keep the info updated, and detailed. These three states also have active State Managers. I have not seen the PA manager weigh in yet on these issues. But bear in mind that it's not the job of the MGR to input all the info, as it's impossible... I am the MGR of California, and we have over 490 Areas, MFRs, and Retailers, and I cannot possibly be familiar with all of them. I do get PMs regularly from users who tell me stuff is incorrect or duplicated, and I take appropriate action. (Hint... Remember I said to contact the Area MGR or the RDB Administrator ??? Ca users don't just b---- about duplicate or errant stuff in the RDB, they contact the MGR. :wink: ) In other words, get into the solution and start adding the info all of you seem to know.
rrrAdam,
I seriously dont want to get into an argument with ANYONE about this, but as phlsphr pointed out, this isnt really an issue about incomplete information. While that is a huge problem, and I do try to do my part and update the information that I do know (and I know of several other active members who do the same), whenindoubt is just adding nonsense. All he lists is a name. More importantly, 20 seperate areas with only names. As I said before, I would love to go check out these areas and see what they have to offer and then I would update the dBase as I have done before. But just a name??? I mean cmon... Its obvious what he is trying to do here. And when he does decide to enter information other than a name, it is incorrect. Seriously incorrect. I dont feel that listing towns 70-250 miles away from locations is a convenience to anyone, which was his reason for doing so. I seriously dont mean to bitch about this and make this thread go on forever... but I think that roclimb had a damn legitamite complaint and I wanted to get behind him on this. Active users from this state have tried to contact kagunkie in the past to fix some of the ugly dBase problems, myself included, and have gotten nothing but frustration. This is why users from this state are taking it to the forums. How do we even know what to do with entries that are blank. We cant find them, there is way to validate the listed region of the state, I mean... this is pretty damn annoying, especially in PA where avid rock climbers will take almost anything they can get.
I have sent our mgr, pms in the past with no result and I know others have also. I will apologize on behalf of all of us here for these repeat theads that you and I both hate, but we are getting frustrated and with good reason. I have no idea what else to even say or do.
How can I fix something that I cant even find???
Peace.
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andy_lemon
May 21, 2004, 6:50 PM
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If you PA'ers can't get in contact with the PA manager then contact me with the corrections/deletions and I will do that for you.
RDB Manager,
Andy Lemon
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rrrADAM
May 21, 2004, 6:50 PM
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In reply to: As the PA manager doesn't seem to be participating in this thread let me ask you what you, rrradam, what would you do if someone added a bunch of areas to the CA database with NO information whatsoever other than a name? Take a look at runitout's entries. Do you have ANY listings in CA like that? Let's face it, there is SOMEWHERE someone could climb in virtually every town in CA. So can I just get out my atlas and add areas at will? I bet I could really increase my "ranking" that way. Wouldn't that be impressive!
Yes, there are several areas in California that are name only. Why should I delete it ??? Any info is better than none.
I notice that you have entered ZERO info into the RDB, yet are complaining about the info another has entered. Like I said, get into the solution brutha. Remember, any info is better than none, and you have shared no info, as in none.
Again, the RDB is a group effort, and it takes the efforts of the group to make it worthwhile. Ca, with 499 Areas (as of today) has an active group putting forth the effort for all to benifit. Can you not share your knowledge with the other users ???
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andy_lemon
May 21, 2004, 6:53 PM
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I just checked, your PA managers last login was Mar 31st. This doesn't mean he needs to be fired or anything... :lol: He's probably just busy. He has contributed tons to the RDB. But, if he doesn't login within the next week or so, contact me and I will make the changes.
Andy
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jason1
May 21, 2004, 7:23 PM
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no info is better than bad info....brutha
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phlsphr
May 21, 2004, 7:28 PM
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I haven't entered anythng because I have nothing USEFUL to add--though I may have soon. At least I'll resist the temptation to follow through on my CA road atlas suggestion. You say, "Any info is better than none". We clearly disagree on that one. Merely posting a name, with nothing else, is not helpful to anyone. You know I (honestly) have done some climbs in CA that I don't remember precisely where they were. Would it be "better than none" if I were just to make a rough guess as to a nearby town--and just enter that town name into the database as a climbing area? Would that make the database better, or worse? Not all "info" is worth publishing. There are places around me that I won't enter here because access at those spots is sensitive. An "any info is better than none" approach in this case would be irresponsible on my part. I'm just one person, and obviously NOT as heavy a user as many here. But, for my part, I want to see quality on this site, not mere quantity. Rc.com will be a better site if people follow my example, and hold off on contributing unless they have something that is genuinely useful.
In reply to: In reply to: As the PA manager doesn't seem to be participating in this thread let me ask you what you, rrradam, what would you do if someone added a bunch of areas to the CA database with NO information whatsoever other than a name? Take a look at runitout's entries. Do you have ANY listings in CA like that? Let's face it, there is SOMEWHERE someone could climb in virtually every town in CA. So can I just get out my atlas and add areas at will? I bet I could really increase my "ranking" that way. Wouldn't that be impressive! Yes, there are several areas in California that are name only. Why should I delete it ??? Any info is better than none. I notice that you have entered ZERO info into the RDB, yet are complaining about the info another has entered. Like I said, get into the solution brutha. Remember, any info is better than none, and you have shared no info, as in none. Again, the RDB is a group effort, and it takes the efforts of the group to make it worthwhile. Ca, with 499 Areas (as of today) has an active group putting forth the effort for all to benifit. Can you not share your knowledge with the other users ??? |
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boss
May 21, 2004, 7:35 PM
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In reply to: Again, the RDB is a group effort, and it takes the efforts of the group to make it worthwhile. Ca, with 499 Areas (as of today) has an active group putting forth the effort for all to benifit. Can you not share your knowledge with the other users ???
No disrespect here,
I'm sure everybody here realizes that the RDB is a group effort. The people posting to this thread would add info if they had it. The whole focus of this thread is to get some way inaccurate stuff deleted (Thanks for looking into this Andy), and perhaps the most important, to keep areas that will need deleted from showing up so often. I'm all for adding info and making things better, but like I said before, why post something if you don't have anything quality to provide (quality not being whether the rock is good or not, but the info you provide). Having said that, stop posting trash, lets get the areas in question deleted, and lets bring the PA RDB back up to par.
Boss
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rrrADAM
May 21, 2004, 7:49 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Again, the RDB is a group effort, and it takes the efforts of the group to make it worthwhile. Ca, with 499 Areas (as of today) has an active group putting forth the effort for all to benifit. Can you not share your knowledge with the other users ??? No disrespect here, I'm sure everybody here realizes that the RDB is a group effort. The people posting to this thread would add info if they had it. The whole focus of this thread is to get some way inaccurate stuff deleted (Thanks for looking into this Andy), and perhaps the most important, to keep areas that will need deleted from showing up so often. I'm all for adding info and making things better, but like I said before, why post something if you don't have anything quality to provide (quality not being whether the rock is good or not, but the info you provide). Having said that, stop posting trash, lets get the areas in question deleted, and lets bring the PA RDB back up to par. Boss
I have for almost 2 months now asked you guys to PM the Area Manager, and if not happy, then PM the RDM Administrator. How many PMs have any of you sent to either of these two ???
BTW... There are a few in this thread who have added/edited zero info in the RDB yet are complaining about it's quality. So saying that all would correct the info if they had it is not entirely true, as one in this thread even said "it's not our job to correct it". Newsflash... It's all of our jobs to correct it if we can, and ask users entering errant info to stop, instead of publically attacking them.
Many of you want to hold "whenindoubt..." accountable for inacurate info, yet even those who know the correct info have not fixed it, nor have you PMd the appropriate people as I suggested months ago.
3 possible solutions:
1. Fix the info (anyone can do this, and most preffered)
2. Contact the Area MGR (who would have to fix it for you if he can)
3. Contact the RDB Administrator (same as above)
4. The info gets deleted (this is not preffered, as fixing the info is the best)
Anyone disagree ???
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boss
May 21, 2004, 8:17 PM
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In reply to: Active users from this state have tried to contact kagunkie in the past to fix some of the ugly dBase problems, myself included, and have gotten nothing but frustration.
I was under the impression that people had attempemted to make contact with kagunkie. Either way, Andy has offered to help if need be, and as he said, kagunkie is most likely busy which is definitely understandable. I'll rephrase what I said earlier about none of us having the info for said areas...I personally do not have any information on these areas, and I was assuming that since everyone on this post is trying to get things fixed, that none of them have it either. Seems logical to me. And in all seriousness, I'm not attacking whenindoubt, I would just imagine that someone that has written a guide book would have a better idea of what is and is not accurate and appropriate for the RDB. All we're asking (or should I say I am asking) is that if you want to put an area up, put some thought into it. If you have questions as to the accuracy of what you are posting, then take it upon yourself to maybe ask a question in the regional discussions forum, get the correct info, then post. That seems much easier than bothering the area MGR repeatedly to fix an ongoing problem.
Boss
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rrrADAM
May 21, 2004, 8:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Active users from this state have tried to contact kagunkie in the past to fix some of the ugly dBase problems, myself included, and have gotten nothing but frustration. I was under the impression that people had attempemted to make contact with kagunkie. Either way, Andy has offered to help if need be, and as he said, kagunkie is most likely busy which is definitely understandable. I'll rephrase what I said earlier about none of us having the info for said areas...I personally do not have any information on these areas, and I was assuming that since everyone on this post is trying to get things fixed, that none of them have it either. Seems logical to me. And in all seriousness, I'm not attacking whenindoubt, I would just imagine that someone that has written a guide book would have a better idea of what is and is not accurate and appropriate for the RDB. All we're asking (or should I say I am asking) is that if you want to put an area up, put some thought into it. If you have questions as to the accuracy of what you are posting, then take it upon yourself to maybe ask a question in the regional discussions forum, get the correct info, then post. That seems much easier than bothering the area MGR repeatedly to fix an ongoing problem. Boss
Gotcha, and agree.
If Keith was unavailable, then we should have gotten ahold of Doug and had him look into replacing him, as that was what was meant by "if not happy contact the RDB Admin". It's the job of the Area Manager (AM) to look into things like this.
Andy is a Senior AM, so he can do this, as that's part of his job. I know Keith personally, and he likes being the MGR of PA, but he may be too busy to do the job required for your state. Something to ponder... Who would like the job if it becomes available ???
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dontfall
May 21, 2004, 8:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Active users from this state have tried to contact kagunkie in the past to fix some of the ugly dBase problems, myself included, and have gotten nothing but frustration. I was under the impression that people had attempemted to make contact with kagunkie. Either way, Andy has offered to help if need be, and as he said, kagunkie is most likely busy which is definitely understandable. I'll rephrase what I said earlier about none of us having the info for said areas...I personally do not have any information on these areas, and I was assuming that since everyone on this post is trying to get things fixed, that none of them have it either. Seems logical to me. And in all seriousness, I'm not attacking whenindoubt, I would just imagine that someone that has written a guide book would have a better idea of what is and is not accurate and appropriate for the RDB. All we're asking (or should I say I am asking) is that if you want to put an area up, put some thought into it. If you have questions as to the accuracy of what you are posting, then take it upon yourself to maybe ask a question in the regional discussions forum, get the correct info, then post. That seems much easier than bothering the area MGR repeatedly to fix an ongoing problem. Boss Gotcha, and agree. If Keith was unavailable, then we should have gotten ahold of Doug and had him look into replacing him, as that was what was meant by "if not happy contact the RDB Admin". It's the job of the Area Manager (AM) to look into things like this. Andy is a Senior AM, so he can do this, as that's part of his job. I know Keith personally, and he likes being the MGR of PA, but he may be too busy to do the job required for your state. Something to ponder... Who would like the job if it becomes available ???
I for one thing have already done this in the past. I pmed the Senior Mod who is in charge of area managers saying that our State manager seems to be inactive and there is many things needing to be fixed. I never got a reply back saying something was going to be done but maybe something needs to be done. I have fixed and added quite the amount of beta for the areas I have only climbed at and know about. I have even contacted roclimb more than a handful of times to make sure beta I was putting up was accurate. I don't know the state well enough to become a Pa manager so that question is out but I'll do needs be. If anyone wants me to start working on certain areas of the Pa DB, Pm me and we can go from there.
Chris
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dontfall
May 21, 2004, 8:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Active users from this state have tried to contact kagunkie in the past to fix some of the ugly dBase problems, myself included, and have gotten nothing but frustration. I was under the impression that people had attempemted to make contact with kagunkie. Either way, Andy has offered to help if need be, and as he said, kagunkie is most likely busy which is definitely understandable. I'll rephrase what I said earlier about none of us having the info for said areas...I personally do not have any information on these areas, and I was assuming that since everyone on this post is trying to get things fixed, that none of them have it either. Seems logical to me. And in all seriousness, I'm not attacking whenindoubt, I would just imagine that someone that has written a guide book would have a better idea of what is and is not accurate and appropriate for the RDB. All we're asking (or should I say I am asking) is that if you want to put an area up, put some thought into it. If you have questions as to the accuracy of what you are posting, then take it upon yourself to maybe ask a question in the regional discussions forum, get the correct info, then post. That seems much easier than bothering the area MGR repeatedly to fix an ongoing problem. Boss Gotcha, and agree. If Keith was unavailable, then we should have gotten ahold of Doug and had him look into replacing him, as that was what was meant by "if not happy contact the RDB Admin". It's the job of the Area Manager (AM) to look into things like this. Andy is a Senior AM, so he can do this, as that's part of his job. I know Keith personally, and he likes being the MGR of PA, but he may be too busy to do the job required for your state. Something to ponder... Who would like the job if it becomes available ??? I for one thing have already done this in the past. I pmed the Senior Mod who is in charge of area managers saying that our State manager seems to be inactive and there is many things needing to be fixed. I never got a reply back saying something was going to be done but maybe something needs to be done. I have fixed and added quite the amount of beta for the areas I have only climbed at and know about. I have even contacted roclimb more than a handful of times to make sure beta I was putting up was accurate. I don't know the state well enough to become a Pa manager so that question is out but I'll do needs be. If anyone wants me to start working on certain areas of the Pa DB, Pm me and we can go from there. Chris
I pm'd the wrong staff person, that explains alot. I will send my orginal pm to andy lemon if I can find it.
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boss
May 21, 2004, 8:54 PM
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In reply to: Andy is a Senior AM, so he can do this, as that's part of his job. I know Keith personally, and he likes being the MGR of PA, but he may be too busy to do the job required for your state. Something to ponder... Who would like the job if it becomes available ???
If this is the case, would it be possible to divide PA MGR into W, Central, and E? Or even go as far as NW, SW, etc. so that each part of the state has someone with intimate knowledge of each area? Thinking about this, I see it being very useful, but at the same time unnecessary if there is one person who knows the state well. Just ideas.
Boss
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dontfall
May 21, 2004, 9:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Andy is a Senior AM, so he can do this, as that's part of his job. I know Keith personally, and he likes being the MGR of PA, but he may be too busy to do the job required for your state. Something to ponder... Who would like the job if it becomes available ??? If this is the case, would it be possible to divide PA MGR into W, Central, and E? Or even go as far as NW, SW, etc. so that each part of the state has someone with intimate knowledge of each area? Thinking about this, I see it being very useful, but at the same time unnecessary if there is one person who knows the state well. Just ideas. Boss
That would be cool. I would say post that up in the Suggestion and Question forum and see what people say. But be prepared, what some may think is an awesome idea, others may just ignore it. I guess you have to pay 20 bucks if you have an idea and you want to see it developed.
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roclimb
May 21, 2004, 9:16 PM
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rradam said,
In reply to: Agreed 100%. As I have said, numerous times, if you know info is bad, click and correct it. It takes just as much time as clicking "reply" in a thread... And certainly less time than complaining about it repeatedly for months. I would fix it for you if I could, but the only areas I have climbed at in PA are Mocanaqua and Tilbury, both of which I added to the RDB almost 4 years ago. _________________
Thanks for adding Tilbury....the place has serious access issues with the parking and people have gtten tickets and fined!
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troutboy
May 21, 2004, 9:23 PM
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FWIW,
I contacted Keith about the erros in the Gunks database on 16 March 2004 and volunteered to fix them. He said no, he would do it.
It's now 21 May. This was (at best) a 2 hour job.
As I said, FWIW.
Tim
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rrrADAM
May 21, 2004, 9:36 PM
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As for Tilbury... Supposed to park down on Rt 11 not up near the homes. Access was not an issue when I climbed there, so don't be an asshole by implying I entered info that shouldn't be there, especially when I'm trying to help you solve issues with your state.
The person to contact was/is Doug (polarwid), as he's the Admin in charge of the RDB, he's just on vacation of sorts at the moment, to Thomas is filling in for him till he returns. You can also check the "Managemant Team" page, listed under About to see who to contact.
And dividing states has been suggested, but is too much of a hassle to code, when we are gonna redo the whole RDB anyway. Believe me, with 499 Areas as of today, I can use the help in managing California. :wink:
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roclimb
May 21, 2004, 9:57 PM
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WOW rradam,
You just called me an #######, that is pretty rude. I made a casual sarcastic comment by changing whenindoubtrunitout's name to when- in doubt -blurt-nonsense-out and you deleted my post minutes after I entered it and I had to restart this one.
What kind of strange virtues do you live by that you feel you can call me an ####### and leave your post but delete mine because you feel it was wrong? You have a funny way of justifying things you do.
By the way Tilbury has had the same access problems for 10-years now. Sometimes parking is accepted but mostly it is and has not been.
Parking on Rt 11 is tolerated a bit more but you still have to park on private business owners property, they get a little funny when a dozen cars show up in their lots and strange folk with big paks and ropes start pileing out.
Just the Facts!
~Rob
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wyattearp
May 21, 2004, 10:17 PM
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Tony , first off YOU LIVE IN UTAH
and second off you suck so stay out of the database, if your gonna scrw things up for all of us!
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rrrADAM
May 21, 2004, 10:37 PM
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In reply to: Tony , first off YOU LIVE IN UTAH and second off you suck so stay out of the database, if your gonna scrw things up for all of us!
That was constructive.
Sounds like we need to contact Doug (polarwid) when he returns to consider looking for replacements for NY and PA possibly if things aren't being taken care of in a timely manner. As I said previously in this thread... I get about 4-8 PMs weekly about Routes, Sections, and/or Areas in the CA RDB from users and act accordingly. The AM for an active state is a job that needs at least weekly attention and commitment.
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