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wyattearp
May 21, 2004, 10:49 PM
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WHO CARES IF IT ICONSTRUCTIVE, THEY GUY IS A JACKASS, AND BY SCRWING UP THE DATABASE, IS HE BEING HELPFUKL AND CONSTRUCTIVE, I DONT THINK SO , SO SPARE ME, THEY GUYS IS JACKAS$
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dontfall
May 21, 2004, 10:52 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Tony , first off YOU LIVE IN UTAH and second off you suck so stay out of the database, if your gonna scrw things up for all of us! That was constructive. Sounds like we need to contact Doug (polarwid) when he returns to consider looking for replacements for NY and PA possibly if things aren't being taken care of in a timely manner. As I said previously in this thread... I get about 4-8 PMs weekly about Routes, Sections, and/or Areas in the CA RDB from users and act accordingly. The AM for an active state is a job that needs at least weekly attention and commitment.
ding ding ding ding.... :shock:
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crag
May 22, 2004, 1:29 AM
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Is all of this banter really worth it? I mean we're talking about PA, aren't we? Who flipping cares about the data base. The choss that is PA climbing has and will always be there even if the directions and route descriptions are wrong.
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wyattearp
May 22, 2004, 1:46 AM
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lalala yeah yeah whatever, you are a jackas$ too, by the way Im 6 and 1.2 years old,a nd my mommy told me to not talk to strangers, Jackas$ hahahahahahahahaahha :D :D :D
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jason1
May 22, 2004, 4:20 PM
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i agree with rob... if just anyone can add info with out checking the validity then there are alot of problems that will occur... I could post directions to rock run and 10 other places around there, but the people who are climbing there now probablly wouldn't like that.
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andy_lemon
May 22, 2004, 4:37 PM
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In reply to: I get about 4-8 PMs weekly about Routes, Sections, and/or Areas in the CA RDB from users and act accordingly.
I for one would like to see that changed. Those pm's should be going to Polarwid and if he is away or busy, or even if we know more about the area... should be directed to the Database Managers. The problem here is LACK OF COMMUNICATION. Users on this site don't know who does what? There is a description buried somewhere on the site that lists me as an area manager... it might be fun to try and find it again, but for the most part people don't know what the heck I do here until I tell them. Everyone thinks I'm some sort of a moderator.
About JOINT STATE MANAGERS: I have suggested this about 2 and a half years ago to Trevor. He was more active then and said he would rather just use one person that can do the job. This would be a really great tool to be able to have 2 people to look over an area.
About the PA DATABASE: Since my post I have recieved 0 pm's to fix the PA database. That almost explains how much of a big deal this is... :roll: I've never been to PA so I don't know personally. If someone types out where they want the areas, where they want the regions, and where they want sections, routes moved... where they want areas deleted... where they want things added or fixed, I can accomplish this in a day. However, I need the info first.
later,
Andy
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rrrADAM
May 22, 2004, 5:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I get about 4-8 PMs weekly about Routes, Sections, and/or Areas in the CA RDB from users and act accordingly. I for one would like to see that changed. Those pm's should be going to Polarwid and if he is away or busy, or even if we know more about the area... should be directed to the Database Managers. The problem here is LACK OF COMMUNICATION. Users on this site don't know who does what? There is a description buried somewhere on the site that lists me as an area manager... it might be fun to try and find it again, but for the most part people don't know what the heck I do here until I tell them. Everyone thinks I'm some sort of a moderator. About JOINT STATE MANAGERS: I have suggested this about 2 and a half years ago to Trevor. He was more active then and said he would rather just use one person that can do the job. This would be a really great tool to be able to have 2 people to look over an area. About the PA DATABASE: Since my post I have recieved 0 pm's to fix the PA database. That almost explains how much of a big deal this is... :roll: I've never been to PA so I don't know personally. If someone types out where they want the areas, where they want the regions, and where they want sections, routes moved... where they want areas deleted... where they want things added or fixed, I can accomplish this in a day. However, I need the info first. later, Andy
Andy... Why should I not get the PMs from users in my state telling me about duplicate or misinfrmation ??? I am the MGR for California, so they should be PMing me not Doug, as it's my job as the MGR to look after the stuff. All AMs should click "What's New" in their state/s to see what is recent, and it is the jobs of the AMs to look after their states, and field these types of issues, and post in the AM Forum if they have questions. You and the other SAMs should field those questions and help the other AMs, and they should only go up to Doug if they can't reach a decision. That is how the "process" should work, and communication is the key, but communicating using that chain of command is key. If Doug has issues he can't resolve, he takes it to me, and if I can't resolve it, I take it to Trevor.
Basically this is the chain:
-User
-State MGR
-AM Forum (to ask peers)
-Senior AMs (should answer questions in AMF, and guide AMs)
-Doug (RDB Admin, provides the direction to the AMs and the SAMs, and staffs the AMs)
-Me (COO)
-Trevor (Pres)
Users should always go to the AM First, and if they are unhappy with the response (or lack of one), then they should go to the RDB Admin, as he may have to consider restaffing that position. Make sense now ??? I still get users interested in doing work for the site, but I direct them to the person in charge of that area... For AMs to Doug, for Mods, to Phil, as those are who I chose to head up those jobs. I can staff them, but it's not my job anymore... I use the chain too brutha. :wink:
It's also easy to see who manages a state, as it says "managed by _____" underneath the State when you pull up the page in the RDB. And the Contributors page also lists all of the AMs, and the Management Org Chart lists you as a Senior AM, this can be found under About. Andy, for a senior AM you should know this brutha... I also said this in an earlier reply in this same thread. :wink:
Those PMs should be going to the State MGR first, then the RDB Administrator second. Follow the chain of command, as it's easier to resolve problems this way. You helping fixes the current issue with PA maybe, but does not address the problem that maybe Keith cannot commit the time required to do the job needed, so it's only a temp fix.
And the current person stitting in for Doug as the RDB Administrator is 'coldclimb', but Andy can also do this for you. Bear in mind again that the preffered solution is to move misplaced Areas to their propper Region, and/or add more info to them... Both of which any user can do, and many of you seem much more familiar with the Areas in question that Andy, I or any other AM. Deleting stuff is a last resort, and even is a bad choice when the Area exists and has pictures linked to it, as it will leave the pics linked to dead links.
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orangekyak
May 22, 2004, 9:04 PM
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In reply to: Is all of this banter really worth it? I mean we're talking about PA, aren't we? Who flipping cares about the data base. The choss that is PA climbing has and will always be there even if the directions and route descriptions are wrong.
Yeah, it's worth it. Not everybody is training for the Nose or Sphinx crack. Not everybody is taking road trips to find perfect splitters or endless clip-ups. Some folks just want to get out to the local crags.
I, for one, would like to find a half-decent crag with a clear access situation and a partner who can show me around when I visit PA. Each area should have an accurate location (including region), lucid directions and a clear statement about access. If access is unclear, that's a different problem and that should be stated.
I wish good luck to anyone working on access or information issues in PA, and offer my desktop publishing experience to anyone looking to make a guidebook.
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mr8615
May 23, 2004, 1:26 AM
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I did start a new discussion about this, but it's more likely to get viewed in here. Anyone know how to get to huntingdon rocks? I'm trying to go out there this weekend and improving the RDB entry for that area. Someone help me out.
Mark
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dontfall
May 24, 2004, 3:42 PM
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so whats going to happen with the Pa manager problem? It's also abit funny that the usuall peanut gallery who always complain about our RDB being out of shape will not comment on what should be done. I love when people are pissed off because things aren't correct but once the time comes to fix it, they are no where to be found. :? Just my .02...
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rrrADAM
May 24, 2004, 3:45 PM
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To many it's much easier to bitch and complain that to get into the solution.
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andy_lemon
May 24, 2004, 3:46 PM
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Adam, I thought you where talking about the whole routes database... not the CA section. Like you said though, I should be recieving pm's about these issues before you. If I don't recieve pm's before you, then this position of "RDB Manager" isn't really needed, right?
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mackavus
May 24, 2004, 3:51 PM
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I put in my input into the forum, and as was suggested to me... when I had time to do this (finally this morning) I reviewed the PA DB, and PMed information to andy_lemon. I also corrected what I had time to correct. I will be correcting more and adding some good info as I gain new information and gain more time to do so.
We all want things changed and I am trying to do what I can here.
Andy I sent you a PM this morning.
Peace.
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rrrADAM
May 24, 2004, 3:53 PM
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In reply to: Adam, I thought you where talking about the whole routes database... not the CA section. Like you said though, I should be recieving pm's about these issues before you. If I don't recieve pm's before you, then this position of "RDB Manager" isn't really needed, right?
I shouldn't recieve PMs about issues other than Ca. If I receive PMs about Area MGRs, as I still do on occasion, I ask the user to contact Doug.
You should receive PMs now that you have said you would help, but by default the PMs should go to the appropriate AM then to Doug, who can delegate it to one of his SAMs, you being one.
Unfortunately Andy... It's easier for some to just bitch and complain that to actually do something about it like fix it, or even send you a PM, as they would have to take the time to do so, and list the Areas that need attention. Don't hold your breath.
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dontfall
May 24, 2004, 4:25 PM
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I have time to do some stuff here and there. I have no clue what needs fixing but I'll do what I can. I've been checking the RDB and saw a city that needs moving. I'll pm andy and go from there. If someone could send me a pm of what needs fixing in NE regional, I could do it.
Chris
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andy_lemon
May 24, 2004, 4:27 PM
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PA RDB Changes
As per a couple of pm's I recieved this morning I made the following changes. Before I get into this I would like to point out that I tried to not overright anybody's information that they had originally added. If I did so, I did so by accident so feel free to save changes over my name. Also, by me NOT OVERRIGHTING anyone's information that will mean when you goto view the "what's new" under the PA State page it will show them as making these changes. That is not true, I made the changes so please feel free to direct your hate mail to me. If you disagree with any of the changes I made post here or send me a pm listing; 1) The area in question 2) The reason you disagree and 3) how I can contact you if your not on rc.com on a daily basis.
AREA'S MOVED:
The following areas where moved from the Northeastern Region to the Southeastern Region:
Eastons Rock Island
Emmaus Boulders
Kernsville Dam
Lehigh Gap (Devils Pulpit)
Lehigh Gap (East Side)
North Lookout/Hawk Mt
Patriot Boulders
Pinnacle
The Pulpit
Climb On - Climbing Gym
Nestors - Retailer
The following areas where deleted:
Five Fingers Area: It was a duplicate of Mocanaqua (Library Area).
Tamaqua Cliff: This was a duplicate of the Tamaqua Quarry.
Coburn: This was a duplicate of Penns Creek.
Deer Lake Bluffs: This area is closed and is no where near Scranton, its listed city. It also had ZERO information.
Angel Falls: Closed to climbing, no where near its listed city, and it also had ZERO information.
Before I deleted any area I made sure they where in fact duplicates or that they had no information whatsoever (including if there are enough climbs for a day, week, month, year, lifetime).
later,
Andy
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dontfall
May 24, 2004, 4:29 PM
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WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED? This morning there was 173, now down to 169? I thought adam always said we try not to delete areas, only improve them? Also, cities have been moved. Allentown crags have been split between 2 different regions? AHHHHH
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dontfall
May 24, 2004, 4:32 PM
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Andy,
move Bauer rocks into southeastern region as well. It's city is Allentown, maybe you missed it.
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rrrADAM
May 24, 2004, 4:32 PM
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Good job Andy. Thanx for your work. :wink:
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dontfall
May 24, 2004, 4:37 PM
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In reply to: Good job Andy. Thanx for your work. :wink:
agreed, good job. I was checking it out probably at the same moment as you were moving everything. I was shocked when I saw what was done, looks good.
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andy_lemon
May 24, 2004, 4:44 PM
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In reply to: Andy, move Bauer rocks into southeastern region as well. It's city is Allentown, maybe you missed it.
Done. Thanks should goto Mackavus for the changes, I just executed them.
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davidcollins
May 24, 2004, 6:39 PM
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Andy
Thanks for the clean-up work. There is one other area with zero information that should be moved (if it exists):
Table Rocks of Sunbury
This should be in the Southcentral region.
Then there are a couple of areas listed as being near Pittsburgh which contain zero information and should be modified in some way.
1) Mt Davis. If this refers to the state high point, then the nearest sizeable settlement is Somerset. There is no other area within 50 miles of Pittsburgh that local climber s know by that name.
2) Canton of Pittsburgh. No Pittsburgh climbers refer to a local area by this name.
Thanks again
David Collins
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dredsovrn
May 24, 2004, 6:49 PM
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Someone mentioned that a PA climbing guide would be nice, and I have to agree. I have been half working on this as a project for fun. It makes climbing in different areas a little more interesting for me anyway. I had really thought of doing Southeast PA, since that is the easiest place for me to get to regularly. If I ever get it done, maybe I will expand to other ares of PA.
It will take a long time since I am trying to climb all of the routes, and at the very least climb extensively in each area. It will also take a long time since it is not how I pay the bills, nor is it my goal for it to become so. In any case, I welcome contributions from anyone in the form of information you think is important. I am also collecting copies of old guidebooks as I am not looking to rewrite the history of the areas. Currently, I have two from High Rocks, some sections of the old PMA guide, Horst's Chickies Rock guide, and a few misc. others.
I am sure there are a lot of old guides I will discover on the way. I am also updating the data base wherever possible/appropriate. Maybe some day I will have it all on paper with the pictures I have taken as well.
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