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justthemaid
Sep 30, 2004, 4:26 PM
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I suck at overhangs. Lately I'm feeling depressed about it. I climb fine on face. I love slab. But the overhanging route has become my nemesis. Every time I work on one it's the same embarassing scenario. My frustrated partners tie me off to a tree for 15 minutes while pelting me with sticks and stones chanting "FEET! FEET! FEET!" or "Grab that big hold you moron!" Oh yeah, and there is always the pudgy middle-aged guy with a baby in tow who floats effortlessly up the even harder overhang right next to me. Evidently my technique is flawed.
I know, I know. I've read the threads. I need to practice. Experienced friends are trying to instruct me. I'm just wondering. Is there an end to this ineptitude? Are some of us just doomed to suck?
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phaedrus
Sep 30, 2004, 4:34 PM
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What you actually need to work on is core strength. There are a number of exercises that will enable you to build that strength; the latest Rock & Ice actually has an article on that very thing. Yoga helps, too.
The other thing to work on is associated with core strenght: body tension, and that's a specific technique training, and there are various sources on how to build that. I'm at work, so I can't really be more specific or offer specific tips, but at least I've given you a starting point. (I hope.)
T
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caughtinside
Sep 30, 2004, 4:35 PM
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Are you conciously thinking about your technique? OR just throwing yourself at the wall and getting frustrated. You HAVE to be technique conscious on overhangs, otherwise you'll pump right out.
But some people are doomed to suck. :P
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justthemaid
Sep 30, 2004, 4:45 PM
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I always start off attempting good technique and carefull foot placement. It usually ends with frustrated hanging. I lack core strength. I have no lock off endurance. I know there are certain muscle groups I'll have to work on I'm just cranky about it.
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jimthespider
Sep 30, 2004, 5:28 PM
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Using straight arms is key. When you bend your arms you are using muscles. If you hang off straight arms your skeletal system takes the weight. Of course, once you have to pull over the roof you will need some lock-off strength, climb FAST. Do frenchies and weighted pull ups to build lock-off strength. At the gym find a 50 degree wall with jugs under it. Pull into the wall with one hand and reach for the next jug but, don't grab it. Hover your hand over it for 5 seconds then grab it, move up and repeat. Increase the time you hover your hand as you get stronger.
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jdouble
Sep 30, 2004, 5:39 PM
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In reply to: I always start off attempting good technique and carefull foot placement. It usually ends with frustrated hanging. I lack core strength. I have no lock off endurance. I know there are certain muscle groups I'll have to work on I'm just cranky about it.
Good advice so far, and I would add you are not doomed to suck!!! The only thing that will 'doom you' is the attitude that you can't do it.
As I am in LA as well, where are you climbing? What routes/level? Have you gotten into the gym and practiced on some of the roof bouldering (if you are not leading in the caves)?
One reason I ask the routes question is I want to see your friends pelting you with rocks and sticks while tied to a tree.
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treesail
Sep 30, 2004, 5:41 PM
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I used to HATE overhangs, & then spent alot of time bouldering in the "cave" areas of our gym. I didn't specifically set out to get used to overhangs, but it turns out they're just about my favorite thing to climb now. Just climb a bunch of low overhanging stuff for awhile. The nice thing about bouldering is you don't have to worry about your friends tying you to the tree -- it's somehow more psychologically o.k. to fall from a boulder than a route; it's no big deal, you just hop back on, whereas it sounds like with routes, you've already decided you suck & your friends are gonna make fun of you, etc., so you're climbing against THAT, too.
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justthemaid
Oct 1, 2004, 1:39 AM
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Thanks for the advice. I won't give up. I just get impatient with this aspect of climbing sometimes. I climb at a 5.9/5.10a level most of the time providing there's no overhangs. Actually a 1 to 2 move overhang is usually manageable. It's the longer ones that cause difficulty. Bouldering is problamatic for me because of ankle problems. The gym is problamatic because the boyfriend hates the gym and a lone female trying to workout with a dozen lonely guys "spotting" you is the subject for a whole other thread.
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omeier
Oct 1, 2004, 2:07 AM
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I have to concur with the others. I'm also kinda working over hangs and find them to be difficult, but i found gym climbing to really help. core strength is critical along with good technique. I some 5.9 overhang as a project route and just worked it each week, i know it wasn't always beautiful but i gained a lot of core strength and learned technique from my friends so i didn't pump myself out. The key is to try to find someone else who knows a little something about over hangs and just practice routes at the gym. try to gradually work your way into it. Slabby is easy and won't work you as hard as negative walls. Work them along with a good project route that is withing your reach. Your not doomed, just be patient and ye shall receive.
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itakealot
Oct 1, 2004, 2:15 AM
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You have been given many pearls of wisdom:
1) work on core strength: sit-ups are key
2) body tension: tighten your stomach and it keeps your body from flopping
3) be aware of technique: arms straight and even if the route is overhang you still have to propel yourself with your feet.
4) Learn how to rest on overhang.
5) Keep moving
What I didn't read
1) If you are good at slab you already know about balance so you can do the same on over hang like flagging to cheat gravity.
2) Swivel your hips to extend your reach: if reaching up to a hold with your right hand, your right hip should be into the wall and your left hand should be locked off as you push with your feet.
3) Are you breathing? Overhang is way more cardio vascular than slab.
4) Do not overgrip or you will burn your forearms although they may be straight.
5) Point your toe and avoid edging on overhang since you will not be able to pivot.
6) If you have to take, shake the lactic acid out of your arms while you are hanging there.
7) You are probably being facetious, but if your belayer is not patient, get another one.
I am actually overweight, but since I am in great cardio shape and learned to climb overhang at Malibu Creek I am at home on overhanging juggy routes. Once you learn the technique of overhang it will be easy.
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ryanpfleger
Oct 1, 2004, 3:52 AM
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Possibly the best advice given so far is MOVE FAST. None of this alternating hands while shaking out and chalking up crap. Feet are also still super important on overhanging terrain, but for different reasons. On slabs and vert, obviously you can get your weight onto your feet at times to rest and work out moves. This doesn't happen on overhangs, you have to move quickly regardless of how good your footwork is, unless you have some serious strength in those arms and/or weigh as much as Katie Brown. Your feet are there to push you to the next hold. Think about moving dynamically, static reaches sap too much strength. If you're thinking about "careful positioning of feet" that could be what is hurting you. Don't be too careful! Where you place your feet is going to lose importance to how you push of those feet as the angle steepens. Anyway, just my two cents.
Ryan
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saskclimber
Oct 1, 2004, 4:32 AM
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In reply to: Is there an end to this ineptitude? Are some of us just doomed to suck? |
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ryanpfleger
Oct 1, 2004, 5:09 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Possibly the best advice given so far is MOVE FAST. None of this alternating hands while shaking out and chalking up crap. Haha... funny thing is you can watch Sharma do this over and over and over on Realization. But then I suppose he's got the credentials to use bad technique. :lol:
Yeah, I was even going to mention Sharma as an example of what NOT to do. The difference here is Sharma (or any other elite climber) is strong enough that he can steal a rest on an overhanging route if there is a good hold (you know, like a one pad mono...lol). Someone struggling up a low 5.10 is probably going to flame out just holding on, no matter how big the jug. No doubt about it, strength is a huge part of climbing overhangs, but its not necessarily a requirement for moderates. Also its not normal for Sharma to spend a lot of time on a route working out the sequence. He is a powerful talented climber, but endurance is not necessarily his strong suit, as it is a climber like Dave Graham or Katie Brown who recover super fast and don't have much body weight to haul up.
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climbsomething
Oct 1, 2004, 5:50 AM
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Technical advice aside, I noticed a tone in here that kinda irked me. Forgive me if I am making assumptions.
"The boyfriend." Get some female partners and/or non-romantic partners and try climbing without "the boyfriend." Sometimes climbing exclusively with your guy can be a detriment. I know this from varied experience. Go to the gym alone or with another friend of either gender, since your BF doesn't like it. In fact, if your climbing circle is really as supportive as you make them sound, ditch them altogether and get some friends who won't tie you to a tree. Get some supportive training partners or be independent and boulder solo, even if just at the gym, and the hell with the wolves. Pretend they're not there (sometimes... they're really not), or tell them to piss off if they're being leches.
Whoever you climb with, be comfortable with that person (and that includes yourself). Then you can relax, and when you're relaxed, you just might find you had it in you all along. Hear you roar! :D
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overlord
Oct 1, 2004, 7:05 AM
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i second many different partners :twisted:
also try searching this forum, there was an excellent thread on this topic a while back (im only wrinting this because its 9am and i really dont feel like writing technical responses right now :wink: )
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anykineclimb
Oct 1, 2004, 10:50 AM
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You need new shoes.
But seriously,
Moving fast over difficult terrain is key.
Conservation of strength is what can make or break you in these types of climbs.
Are you overgripping?
practice using the absolute minimal amount of strength to hold yourself on.
To help with your core try this:
get on a fairly steep wall with jugs. hang there, high enough so your feet are at least a foot off the deck. Now, alternately place your feet on the wall. Paying attention to where you put them. Don't jab or kick at the holds.
don't ever use the same holds either. you can even have a friend point to different holds to make things intersting!
try to keep you body from swinging too.
Doing this will help with footwork, get your core strength up and you can even do it while locked off for extra fun!!
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justthemaid
Oct 1, 2004, 3:32 PM
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I should probably mention this post was somewhat facetious. My friends are indeed quite patient with me and they have never physically tied me off to a tree. Malibu Creek was a good sugestion. Lots of overhangs with big holds. Some of the pockets there are so large I can actually wedge myself inside and take no hand rests halfway up. I'll take all this sage advice and work on this this winter.
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matixa
Oct 1, 2004, 4:10 PM
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You're funny!
Anyway, I know what you mean. I'll face climb a 5.11 just to avoid a 5.9 overhang. Maybe it's a girl thing. Knowing I have a problem w/these overhangs I've been working on them in the gym starting w/the huge jug routes. This has been helpful in building up my endurance and working the muscles needed for overhangs. I still suck, but I've become more comfortable w/ heel hooks and working my feet up as far as I can before going for the hold over the lip.
I totally empathize.........let us know how it goes.
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jdouble
Oct 1, 2004, 4:38 PM
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In reply to: Malibu Creek was a good sugestion.
Try the 10b on the left of the Power Wall, if you have not been on it already. Good overhang, losts of jugs, more than one no hands rest if you work it (and no trees for your partners to tie you off).
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tyify
Oct 1, 2004, 5:24 PM
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I would train on the 45 degree wall to build up the footwork and back strength. Just do a variance of problems to get down the footwork. Another thing to try is learning how to down climb. That will work on footwork for the overhangs.
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hardrock_chik
Oct 3, 2004, 2:39 AM
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Have you learnt to pivot? I've tried overhangs without pivoting and to me many are almost impossible. I'm still pretty useless at them but after practice, improing my technique on flat walls and building my "core" I breezed up i a climb I couldn't do 1 month earlier. I just takes time but I suppose everyone is different, some may be doomed 2 suck!
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kalcario
Oct 3, 2004, 4:22 AM
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*Possibly the best advice given so far is MOVE FAST. None of this alternating hands while shaking out and chalking up crap.*
Uh...what if you're pumped? Ignore the shake out and keep going? The ability to recover on good holds while you scope out the next sequence is what determines how hard you climb...
*Yeah, I was even going to mention Sharma as an example of what NOT to do. The difference here is Sharma (or any other elite climber) is strong enough that he can steal a rest on an overhanging route if there is a good hold (you know, like a one pad mono...lol). Someone struggling up a low 5.10 is probably going to flame out just holding on, no matter how big the jug. No doubt about it, strength is a huge part of climbing overhangs, but its not necessarily a requirement for moderates. Also its not normal for Sharma to spend a lot of time on a route working out the sequence. He is a powerful talented climber, but endurance is not necessarily his strong suit, as it is a climber like Dave Graham or Katie Brown who recover super fast and don't have much body weight to haul up.*
You're talking outta your ass, someone struggling just to hold on isn't going to do the route, and going fast won't help, no matter what the grade, and you really have no idea what's going on at the elite level aside from watching a few videos. Strength and endurance are 2 different things, you don't have to be strong to rest...and Graham's strong suit is endurance, but he's done every hard boulder problem in Europe? yeah right...
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nd2boostt
Oct 4, 2004, 5:44 PM
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I'm having a very similar issue. Although I've only been climbing for like a month, I decided to give some of the overhangs at my gym a try. I have very little upperbody strength (which I am trying to change!). I try to get on the finger/hangboard a few times everytime I go climbing, but the most I can do is hang there for a few seconds. What I have been doing is keeping the majority of my weight on my feet and trying to lift myself, rather than just releasing all of my weight. I do seem to be improving, but is this a bad way to "train"? I will also grab onto holds on the wall and just hang for as long as I can....I'm desperately trying to build upper body strength!! When I tried the overhands, though, all I could was hang like a freakin paralyzed monkey. I felt a bit like a idiot just dangling there, but I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do. I decided that holding myself on the wall and trying to build strength and get used to the holds is probably better than nothing, but I may be wrong. I don't think I mentally understand how it physically works. If your arms are straight, then you are hanging away from the wall, correct? So, most of the weight is supported by the arms....not feet? BTW, I boulder, so I'm not climbing vertical, but horizontal. I just don't understand how I am supposed to fight gravity!!
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