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cammaniac
Jan 6, 2005, 4:24 PM
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So I don't get to climb cracks that require taping here in southeast, but I was wondering why continue taping when you can use the rubber backed hand jammies. It seems to me that they are quicker to put on and would work better. Can some of you crackheads enlighten me.
Are they considered cheating? If so, why?
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omenbringer
Jan 6, 2005, 5:04 PM
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I own the hand jammies and have used them a few times. In my experience they weren't much better than a well made tape glove. The sticky rubber doesn't help all that much, and in my experience caused my hand to sweat more making the jams feel less secure. Where the hand jammies do excel is in increasing the profile of your hand, so those of us with narrow hands could benefit from ther use versus tape. Due to cost I also perfer the tape gloves that cost me less than $3.00 to make and have lasted many climbs in Josh and the gym versus the Hand Jammies which cost $25.00.
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bandycoot
Jan 6, 2005, 5:15 PM
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I've never seen or used a hand jammie, but I assume that the rubber is thicker than the tape gloves. This would make it more difficult on thin hand cracks. Also, if you're a purist there is no way you're going to put on something like that. It's just the principle of the thing.
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md3
Jan 6, 2005, 5:15 PM
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When I was in the SE I taped up for several good sized cracks at the T-Wall and New River. I still have a gouge scar from a fist size roof crack that I didn't tape for.
I like using the earlier version of the rubber backed things, but they make certain sized cracks so much easier that you would have to consider it cheating, in some respects. It's also easier to place cams than hexes. Similarly, tape allows you to climb a crack a little more easily than without it. But, its your game so you can do it however you like. I suppose the only protential problem is getting so used to the rubber that on longer routes where you don't want to bring them or wear them all day you will find jam sized crack sections more difficult than you are used to. They make my hands so fat that some cracks I could thin hand jam without them become finger problems.
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jammer
Jan 6, 2005, 5:26 PM
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I have them and have used them. I've found that I didn't care for them as much as I thought I would. They do add thickness to your hand, so where you use to have a nice jam before, the added thickness may make it harder to climb, even though it does save skin! The sticky rubber does work well, but I still felt like I was cheating.
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jkornelis
Jan 6, 2005, 5:36 PM
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Ok then, can you guys explain the best way to make tape gloves then. I have never taped and would like to start taking on some cracks.
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cammaniac
Jan 6, 2005, 6:24 PM
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I know there are cracks at T-wall and such that tape would be most helpful, I just don't climb that hard, yet!
So am I understandiing correctly that people reuse their tape gloves?
What about the thigh pads I've seen people using? Are those shoe rubber or the chalkless pads I've heard about?
Thanks for the input. Next time I'm at T-wall, I think I will tape up just so I look cool!! 8^) 8^)
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jkornelis
Jan 6, 2005, 6:47 PM
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thanks
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vegastradguy
Jan 7, 2005, 12:32 AM
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i watched my friend try to send atman with hand jammies. failed. had to take them off to continue. the things make your hands fat and they're expensive.
as for taping, i used to make nice tape gloves, but i've found that more often than not, if i actually need tape, a few wraps around the palm of my hand will do- it covers the part of my hand that is the most sensitive and only takes about 5 seconds per hand.
if i was climbing in a place where tape gloves were needed at all times (say, like JTree) then i might make a pair, but for the most part, i'll just use the wrap.
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hand_sandwich
Jan 7, 2005, 12:54 AM
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While I prefer tape (because I have relatively large hands already and don't need much additional thickness to make a tight hands crack difficult), my girlfriend loves hand jammies. She has pretty small mitts, and the jammies ease the burden of trying to fill the gap when following me on my eternal quest to climb every crack I can get my hands in. Plus they really help with some hand "smearing" when she's arm-barring up off-widths.
I've worn her pair on a few occasions, mostly when I'm outta tape or it's really cold and I'd like a little warmth for the paws. I find the sticky rubber adds a lot of grip and reduces a lot of feel during jams, and the elastic finger loops are a bit tight and cause some numbness, but that's just me.
As for reusing tape, make the gloves and just cut them at the wrist when you're done for the day. When you're ready to use them again, just slide 'em on and tape over the cut at the wrists. I've had pairs last for months, with just a few pieces added here and there to cover the bare spots from poor technique and trying to put my hands where they just won't fit.
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bandycoot
Jan 7, 2005, 12:55 AM
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If memory serves correctly, the Metolius climbing tape has instruction attached on how to create a reusable tape glove. It is similar to the one linked above, but there are differences. I agreen with Vegastradguy that often a few wraps around the right spot can make a quick easy alternative. It just takes some time and experience to figure out what that right spot is.
Josh
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crackmd
Jan 7, 2005, 1:08 AM
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In reply to: If memory serves correctly, the Metolius climbing tape has instruction attached on how to create a reusable tape glove. It is similar to the one linked above, but there are differences. I agreen with Vegastradguy that often a few wraps around the right spot can make a quick easy alternative. It just takes some time and experience to figure out what that right spot is. Josh
I tried the Metolius way one time on Top Sirloin at Indian Creek and ended up with holes in the back of my hands. Over the years I have evolved a taping scheme which seems to work pretty well. Tape gloves generally last me for weeks of climbing unless that climbing is at Indian Creek, in which case they last a few days. I have done the few wraps around the hand thing which is great for a multi-pitch climb with only a short section of sustained jamming.
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irockclimbtoo
Jan 7, 2005, 1:46 AM
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ab
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tenesmus
Jan 8, 2005, 2:59 AM
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In reply to: So I don't get to climb cracks that require taping here in southeast, but I was wondering why continue taping when you can use the rubber backed hand jammies. It seems to me that they are quicker to put on and would work better. Can some of you crackheads enlighten me. Are they considered cheating? If so, why?
Just go up to Sandrock and do some of those easy cracks in that pebbley sandstone and you'll be crying for tape gloves. This is where I learned the value of tape. I think if you climb at the Tennessee wall or Sunset at all, you'll want to start out wearing them until you really get the feel for jamming. Once you do, it isn't nearly as necessary.
can't believe you don't think there are cracks there. hello!!! Lost Wall? Tennessee Wall? Sunset?
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crackmd
Jan 8, 2005, 3:05 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: So I don't get to climb cracks that require taping here in southeast, but I was wondering why continue taping when you can use the rubber backed hand jammies. It seems to me that they are quicker to put on and would work better. Can some of you crackheads enlighten me. Are they considered cheating? If so, why? WTF? no cracks in the southeast?? Hell - don't you get out at all? Just go up to Sandrock and do some of those easy cracks in that pebbley sandstone and you'll be crying for tape gloves. This is where I learned the value of tape. I think if you climb at the Tennessee wall or Sunset at all, you'll want to start out wearing them until you really get the feel for jamming. Once you do, it isn't nearly as necessary. can't believe you don't think there are cracks there. hello!!! Lost Wall? Tennessee Wall? Sunset?
I agree. There are tons of good cracks in the east. New River Gorge has bunches. One of my top 5 crack pitches of all time is Inhibitor at the Red. The T-Wall is one of the best crack venues in the country!
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rjtrials
Jan 8, 2005, 4:41 AM
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In reply to: So I don't get to climb cracks that require taping here in southeast In reply to: WTF? no cracks in the southeast?? Hell - don't you get out at all? ...... can't believe you don't think there are cracks there. hello!!! Lost Wall? Tennessee Wall? Sunset?
It seems to me that most of the easier trad climbs around here that I have climbed, T-Wall and Sunset, are more dihedral climbing than straight on jamming. Of course there are exceptions to this, but maybe Cam has been sticking to those less intimidating corners.....
RJ
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dirtineye
Jan 8, 2005, 5:14 AM
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One crack that needs tape at sand rock is path of a patriot, shannon steg and curtis glass, 10c/d. That sucker will cut you up. It's ful of iron ore crust and broken pebble edge conglomerate.
Using tape on some of the stuff at Twall just shows you don't know how to jam correctly. For instance, if you need tape for In persuit of excellence, you ain;t got it right.
Screw hand jammies.
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karlbaba
Jan 8, 2005, 5:17 AM
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Hand Jammies make your hand bigger than Tape Gloves do. That can be an advantage on some cracks and a killer on smaller ones.
Hand Jammies slip around on your hand much worse than tape, which can make them less suitable for climbing at your limit.
Tape can restrict the flexibility and expandability of your hands if you tape too tight. Jammies don't have that problem.
It's a lot easier to apply Hand Jammies to just the pitches you need em on and take them off for the rest.
Those are some pros and cons. Have fun
Peace
karl
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lambone
Jan 8, 2005, 7:34 AM
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neither, both are for pussies...if you ain't got scars on yer hands than your not a climber.
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crackmd
Jan 8, 2005, 12:24 PM
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In reply to: neither, both are for sissies...if you ain't got scars on yer hands than your not a climber.
I just can't see any moral reason why I should not protect my hands while crackclimbing. I also can't see any moral reason why an aid climber shouldn't protect his hands with leather gloves like you seem to be doing in your profile picture. You were probably kidding in your post (at least I hope you were). I just know there are people out there who think that way. It's all about enjoying yourself and if tape gloves or leather gloves help someone to have a better time then I am all for it. No person should be made to be ashamed for protecting themselves from injury.
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tenesmus
Jan 8, 2005, 4:52 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: So I don't get to climb cracks that require taping here in southeast In reply to: WTF? no cracks in the southeast?? Hell - don't you get out at all? ...... can't believe you don't think there are cracks there. hello!!! Lost Wall? Tennessee Wall? Sunset? It seems to me that most of the easier trad climbs around here that I have climbed, T-Wall and Sunset, are more dihedral climbing than straight on jamming. Of course there are exceptions to this, but maybe Cam has been sticking to those less intimidating corners..... RJ
5.10 at the tennessee wall can mean a lot of things. 5.10 at Indian creek means you have to jam. A LOT.
Just ask around and make yourself do some jamming - There is a great 5.9 at sandrock that you won't get unless you tape and jam. Paul F. and Tim W. taught me that there about 5 years ago and I'll never forget how good it felt.
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the_antoon
Jan 8, 2005, 5:10 PM
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In reply to: ...Also, if you're a purist there is no way you're going to put on something like that. It's just the principle of the thing....
And if you are really a purist, you won't wear shoes either! :wink:
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kalcario
Jan 8, 2005, 9:31 PM
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*It's all about enjoying yourself and if tape gloves or leather gloves help someone to have a better time then I am all for it. No person should be made to be ashamed for protecting themselves from injury.*
If you care more about protecting the skin on your hands than about becoming a good crack climber, then use it, but it will impair the development of good technique. You really don't need it because eventually your hands will toughen up and you'll move your hands around less in the jams and use less pressure. For things like 3/4" fingers and thin hands, you'll just be making it harder.
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cracklover
Jan 9, 2005, 1:52 AM
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In reply to: *It's all about enjoying yourself and if tape gloves or leather gloves help someone to have a better time then I am all for it. No person should be made to be ashamed for protecting themselves from injury.* If you care more about protecting the skin on your hands than about becoming a good crack climber, then use it, but it will impair the development of good technique. You really don't need it because eventually your hands will toughen up and you'll move your hands around less in the jams and use less pressure. For things like 3/4" fingers and thin hands, you'll just be making it harder.
For off fingers, too. But really, if the guy is just learning to jam, I'm hope he's not doing pure fingers, off-fingers, or thin hands. :roll:
For good solid hand or fist jams, especially where it's steep and or the rock is very rough, a good pair of tape gloves can make the difference between learning, and giving up in disgust, pain, and blood. You can always put the tape gloves away once you get good.
GO
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