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johnwesely
Jan 30, 2010, 9:05 PM
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tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand.
It ruins it because it eliminates the commitment nature of the climb. When you rack up at the base of a climb, the rock is all there is. You have to climb it as is. The easy to protect sections are there. The runouts are there. When you start climbing a gear route, you are making a commitment. If there were bolts on it, then you could bail at any time. If the bolts are not there, then you don't have a choice. It is an arbitrary path to self reliance, but it is a whole lot of fun.
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johnwesely
Jan 30, 2010, 9:24 PM
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camhead wrote: tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand. I don't understand why they don't pave more backcountry hiking trails. Lots more people who are unable to walk on dirt and rocks would be able to hike on them, and if you don't like them, you can just still walk off to the side of the asphault.
Actually, Imagine how sweet it would be to rollerblade to the crag.
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tehbillzor
Jan 30, 2010, 9:32 PM
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I started laughing after reading your post and your signature underneath it, But I would prefer to get paved roads and cell reception where I am rather than paved hiking trails.
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jomagam
Jan 30, 2010, 9:44 PM
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Drill baby, drill !!!
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jt512
Jan 31, 2010, 3:29 AM
Post #82 of 132
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camhead wrote: climbingtrash wrote: Finnish school or get a job You could even get a job at Finnish School!
I think he meant Finnish school or get a jörb.
Jay
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sbaclimber
Jan 31, 2010, 1:45 PM
Post #83 of 132
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johnwesely wrote: camhead wrote: tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand. I don't understand why they don't pave more backcountry hiking trails. Lots more people who are unable to walk on dirt and rocks would be able to hike on them, and if you don't like them, you can just still walk off to the side of the asphault. Actually, Imagine how sweet it would be to rollerblade to the crag. 
There is a very small boulder / toprope chunk of rock close to my old community college, and right on a nice paved bike/blade-way. I skated there a couple times to go climbing. I was a fun way to warm up
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budman
Jan 31, 2010, 2:52 PM
Post #84 of 132
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If you want to bolt a crack go right ahead. It only shows your lack of respect for those who came before you and and arrogance and entitlement of a spoiled brat. You can climb with people that have gear and almost always share, learn the skills necessary or bring the stone to your level. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Bolting a crack only shows how low one will stoop to say I climbed it. I personally have more respect for those that backed off something and never climb it than those that brought it down to their level. Must admit my roots in climbing are way traditional and I thank those that taught me the restraint to climb with respect. And yes there are many things I haven't gotten up and many things I'll never be able to do and each and every one is on my list to do until I am no longer here.
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angry
Jan 31, 2010, 3:09 PM
Post #85 of 132
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camhead wrote: tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand. I don't understand why they don't pave more backcountry hiking trails. Lots more people who are unable to walk on dirt and rocks would be able to hike on them, and if you don't like them, you can just still walk off to the side of the asphault.
I can climb DWS all day within 20 feet of my scooter.
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boymeetsrock
Jan 31, 2010, 3:52 PM
Post #87 of 132
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tehbillzor wrote: No; I don't want obama to do anything but resign, but that is neither here nor their. All that I am saying is that having bolted routes are very convenient for me, and most of the people who I climb with (college ages) because we don't have $1500+ to spend on trad gear.
Lay of teh weed for a couple of weeks and you're half way there.
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tehbillzor
Jan 31, 2010, 3:59 PM
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You actually pay for that stuff 
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boymeetsrock
Jan 31, 2010, 4:00 PM
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jt512 wrote: budman wrote: If you want to bolt a crack go right ahead. It only shows your lack of respect for those who came before you and and arrogance and entitlement of a spoiled brat. You can climb with people that have gear and almost always share, learn the skills necessary or bring the stone to your level. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Bolting a crack only shows how low one will stoop to say I climbed it. I personally have more respect for those that backed off something and never climb it than those that brought it down to their level. Must admit my roots in climbing are way traditional and I thank those that taught me the restraint to climb with respect. And yes there are many things I haven't gotten up and many things I'll never be able to do and each and every one is on my list to do until I am no longer here. So how do you feel about this? [img]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/1/286941-largest_76392.jpg[/img] (What took me so long?) Jay
Seriously, 4 1/2 years.?. You're slipping.
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budman
Jan 31, 2010, 4:36 PM
Post #91 of 132
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Picture is worth a thousand words. Like I said do as you like. I don't have to live with you, you do. As to rock quality and type it surely plays a part in the ethical question. Is it limestone of a quality that would not accept a fall on cams or such? Would have preferred to see it drilled on lead but many don't take the time to do it in style. There is a climb near my home that has sat for 10 years that I know of with a couple of bolts only because the gentleman doing the route could not place the next hook to drill with toproping being dead easy. It's left as a project because the style in which it establishes the route is as important as the route. Admire his style and glad he is a friend and always pushing the limits of climbing.
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boymeetsrock
Jan 31, 2010, 4:37 PM
Post #92 of 132
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johnwesely wrote: camhead wrote: tehbillzor wrote: Johnwesly it is great that you have the ingenuity to purchase a rack, but every ones situation is different. My intent was not to be a whinny baby, but rather to communicate my point of view on the topic. I guess what I don't understand is why having bolts 2-3ft off of a crack would ruin it for a trad climber. Perhaps once I have done my fair share of trad climbs I will understand. I don't understand why they don't pave more backcountry hiking trails. Lots more people who are unable to walk on dirt and rocks would be able to hike on them, and if you don't like them, you can just still walk off to the side of the asphault. Actually, Imagine how sweet it would be to rollerblade to the crag.
It'd be like a modern cross training facility. Rollerblade to the crag. RP some gnarly cracks with the supperlight draws. Then if the pump overwhelms you, you can cruise your Hover-round home.
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climbingtrash
Jan 31, 2010, 5:52 PM
Post #95 of 132
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Ha, yeah...that's what I thought too. Wow...real handy over on that other thread.
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jt512
Jan 31, 2010, 6:24 PM
Post #96 of 132
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climbingtrash wrote: Ha, yeah...that's what I thought too. Wow...real handy over on that other thread.
Thats sew cute. Yew think your cleaver, dont chew.
Jay
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climbingtrash
Jan 31, 2010, 8:13 PM
Post #97 of 132
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jt512 wrote: climbingtrash wrote: Ha, yeah...that's what I thought too. Wow...real handy over on that other thread. Thats sew cute. Yew think your cleaver, dont chew. Jay
Yep...cleaver and cute. *sigh* I've been outed...
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potreroed
Jan 31, 2010, 11:21 PM
Post #98 of 132
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budman wrote: If you want to bolt a crack go right ahead. It only shows your lack of respect for those who came before you and and arrogance and entitlement of a spoiled brat. You can climb with people that have gear and almost always share, learn the skills necessary or bring the stone to your level. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Bolting a crack only shows how low one will stoop to say I climbed it. I personally have more respect for those that backed off something and never climb it than those that brought it down to their level. Must admit my roots in climbing are way traditional and I thank those that taught me the restraint to climb with respect. And yes there are many things I haven't gotten up and many things I'll never be able to do and each and every one is on my list to do until I am no longer here.
What about doing the FA on trad gear then bolting it for the masses?
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budman
Jan 31, 2010, 11:50 PM
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I like the question as I believe it is asked in honesty. The answer is a bit tongue in cheek. A trad crack is just that. A bolted crack is a mere layback with no jamming skills what so ever required for the most part. If you can jam then your probably going to want to climb it straight in and that is perfect for placing gear. For me climbing is placing gear and leaving as little trace as possible. I'm not climbing hard and it is a joke to think I ever did but it just has never been ALL about the numbers but more the style. I clip bolts with delight when I come across them on run out terrain, slabs (they scare the shit out of me but I climb them because I like getting better at what scares me), great face climbs, and bolts ladders on aid climbs, oh yes and those big 1/2 inchers when I'm pump at the anchor. Bolts make me feel safe when climbing but it's leaving that comfort zone that draws me to climbing in general. If you want to climb cracks without bolts give me a call as there are many where I live.
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jt512
Jan 31, 2010, 11:53 PM
Post #100 of 132
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budman wrote: For me climbing is placing gear....
That just about says it all.
Jay
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