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alpenweg
Nov 5, 2008, 12:26 PM
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what is the OP?
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sbaclimber
Nov 5, 2008, 1:13 PM
Post #77 of 485
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alpenweg wrote: what is the OP?
I haven't made up my mind yet.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 5, 2008, 1:30 PM
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lol, damn this is an exciting post. Sorry for the people I offended, I fully understand your position. Hell like I said I want to climb trad. This is what happens when you drink too much and read about Ken "The Bolt Chopper" from the East Coast. I don't want to get into detail about my opinions, nor do I want want to respond to all these posts... My problem is with people that want to go chopping bolts. I generally agree that a well placed piece of pro is more then likely stronger then most bolts. I also feel we should set better standards for bolting so they are less dangerous. And as far as climbing bolted crack,... I can get that done at Shelf Road. Once again sorry for anyone who got offended. Hell if I saw this post I would be on the OP like white on rice.
btw: WHOO HOO Obama WON!!!!!
and try not to drink to much, and if you do avoid reading about Ken "The Bolt Chopper", you may very well do something quite rash, like make a thread like this one.... 
(This post was edited by HappinessIsWinning on Nov 5, 2008, 1:31 PM)
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robbovius
Nov 5, 2008, 1:42 PM
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: lol, damn this is an exciting post. Sorry for the people I offended, I fully understand your position. Hell like I said I want to climb trad. This is what happens when you drink too much and read about Ken "The Bolt Chopper" from the East Coast. I don't want to get into detail about my opinions, nor do I want want to respond to all these posts... My problem is with people that want to go chopping bolts. I generally agree that a well placed piece of pro is more then likely stronger then most bolts. I also feel we should set better standards for bolting so they are less dangerous. And as far as climbing bolted crack,... I can get that done at Shelf Road. Once again sorry for anyone who got offended. Hell if I saw this post I would be on the OP like white on rice. btw: WHOO HOO Obama WON!!!!! and try not to drink to much, and if you do avoid reading about Ken "The Bolt Chopper", you may very well do something quite rash, like make a thread like this one....
so, you drink and post, and then apologize for it, while admitting your were posting while drunk, and then blame the drink for your idiotic posting - WEAKSAUCE.
what the fuck, dude, are you like, 15? shut the fuck up for about 25 years, and try to learn how to manage life, and then you won't suck so badly at it.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 5, 2008, 1:45 PM
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zeke_sf wrote: dynosore wrote: If you can't "afford" a trad rack, you're not serious at all about trad climbing. The good part is he also can't afford a drill and bolts... Yup. Just another whiner whining about shit he won't do a damn thing about.
I got the hammer drill, and a good start for a rack. I just get fed up with people dogging sport. Maybe you all want to attack me for my rant, and that's fine, like I said I would do the same thing.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 5, 2008, 1:51 PM
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robbovius wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: lol, damn this is an exciting post. Sorry for the people I offended, I fully understand your position. Hell like I said I want to climb trad. This is what happens when you drink too much and read about Ken "The Bolt Chopper" from the East Coast. I don't want to get into detail about my opinions, nor do I want want to respond to all these posts... My problem is with people that want to go chopping bolts. I generally agree that a well placed piece of pro is more then likely stronger then most bolts. I also feel we should set better standards for bolting so they are less dangerous. And as far as climbing bolted crack,... I can get that done at Shelf Road. Once again sorry for anyone who got offended. Hell if I saw this post I would be on the OP like white on rice. btw: WHOO HOO Obama WON!!!!! and try not to drink to much, and if you do avoid reading about Ken "The Bolt Chopper", you may very well do something quite rash, like make a thread like this one.... so, you drink and post, and then apologize for it, while admitting your were posting while drunk, and then blame the drink for your idiotic posting - WEAKSAUCE. what the fuck, dude, are you like, 15? shut the fuck up for about 25 years, and try to learn how to manage life, and then you won't suck so badly at it.
I'm 29, and I know your game. Does it make you feel good to degrade people? Do you feel stronger after a post like that? Your weak, your post is a perfect example of why/how. Oh, and next time you have had a few too many read this post and try to not get pissed:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...;;page=unread#unread
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 5, 2008, 2:06 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: I just get fed up with people dogging sport. That's only because you are a sport climber. Once you have evolved up the pecking order a bit, then you will start to appreciate how much fun it is to dog on those "below" you  Btw, even if you have the drill, it is still true that the cost of *properly* putting up a sport line is more than putting together a decent rack.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 5, 2008, 2:07 PM
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lol, yeah that one is pretty good.
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charley
Nov 5, 2008, 2:10 PM
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: WTF, why you want to impose your views on someone else? I don't ask you to climb sport. Why the fuck do you think you should be telling others what to do. Seems to me that you suck at climbing faces so you find no use for bolts, which is fine for you, but keep it that way,... to yourself. BTW, I hope more people bolt cracks, you rich fucks can fuck yourselves with all your cams, most of us, especially given the times, can't afford a full trad rack. I would love to be able to climb cracks that were bolted, but you fucks have to make it just one more thing that is elitist, I hope BD fucks up and kills you all with a hellacious defect or some shit. [mad] One more thing, I am trying to get a trad rack together, the point is that there is no reason everyone should have to get a full rack in order to climb crack.
This sounds like a real asshole!!
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shockabuku
Nov 5, 2008, 2:13 PM
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: No one has a right to be elitist....
Anyone has the right to be elitist.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 5, 2008, 2:14 PM
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shockabuku wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: No one has a right to be elitist.... Anyone has the right to be elitist.
That's the kind of response I would expect from you...
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sbaclimber
Nov 5, 2008, 2:17 PM
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: It depends on the height of the route, Rawl 5 piece bolts aren't very expensive, nor are hangers.
But, consider this: when you buy trad gear, you get to use it on a potentially unlimited number of routes. If you choose to put your money where mouth is though, you may only pay $1/bolt x X# of bolts + hangers, but you only get to use them on that route (I suppose you could recycle the hangers....). When you get to the next crack you want to climb as a sport route, you'll need to invest in a bunch of new bolts...and so on...
In the long run, cost per route, a rack is actually cheaper.
(I know you aren't actually against trad, or leaving routes "natural". I am just discussing for the sake of discussion)
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j_ung
Nov 5, 2008, 2:21 PM
Post #92 of 485
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: macherry wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: WTF, why you want to impose your views on someone else? I don't ask you to climb sport. Why the fuck do you think you should be telling others what to do. Seems to me that you suck at climbing faces so you find no use for bolts, which is fine for you, but keep it that way,... to yourself. BTW, I hope more people bolt cracks, you rich fucks can fuck yourselves with all your cams, most of us, especially given the times, can't afford a full trad rack. I would love to be able to climb cracks that were bolted, but you fucks have to make it just one more thing that is elitist, I hope BD fucks up and kills you all with a hellacious defect or some shit. One more thing, I am trying to get a trad rack together, the point is that there is no reason everyone should have to get a full rack in order to climb crack. oh for fucks sakes, stop being a whiny girl lol, that's pretty insightful. Do you have a bit more opinion to add. I would love to actually read what you think about this.
Just a tiny bit more tact in your first post might have helped. Y'know, maybe leave out the I-hope-you-die part next time.
I think you might have misunderstood how "standards" for ethics in climbing become so. It's done on an area-by-area basis using a time-tested method of shame, guilt and peer pressure... or lack thereof. Seriously. Now, I'm not saying it's a great or terrible system, just that it is what it is. If you'd care to organize every crag and climber in the country to impose your will on the rest of us, which would be doing what you were pissed about in the first place, I'm sure we'll all step in line.
Personally, I like some variety in my climbing. One day I might want a runout frightfest that tests my belayer almost as much as it tests me. On others I want to clip a bolt or two. The biggest mistake we as climbers can make, IMO, is to homogenize climbing one way or the other. When I lose the inclination and opportunity to customize my climbing as I see fit, it's probably time for me to hang it up. And since I don't really want to hang it up, I'll say I'm pretty happy to have some areas be closer to pristine and some not so much.
What can I say? I'm not consumed with making it safe and possible for me to climb every route. I'm perfectly happy knowing that there's terrain out there I won't ever touch. Pretty psyched about it, actually.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 5, 2008, 2:28 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: HappinessIsWinning wrote: It depends on the height of the route, Rawl 5 piece bolts aren't very expensive, nor are hangers. True, for one route.... But, consider this: when you buy trad gear, you get to use it on a potentially unlimited number of routes. If you choose to put your money where mouth is though, you may only pay $1/bolt x X# of bolts + hangers, but you only get to use them on that route (I suppose you could recycle the hangers....). When you get to the next crack you want to climb as a sport route, you'll need to invest in a bunch of new bolts...and so on... In the long run, cost per route, a rack is actually cheaper. (I know you aren't actually against trad, or leaving routes "natural". I am just discussing for the sake of discussion )
Understandable. However a trad rack can't replace a nicely bolted face. It's just not the same thing. Similarly a nicely bolted face is no replacement for a trad rack. I want both and lots of them too. I like climbing sport, even after I get a full rack together I will still like sport. They are two very different things, IMO. I would also never bolt a crack.
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HappinessIsWinning
Nov 5, 2008, 2:33 PM
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Awesome response, this is by far the most informative reply. I would have to say your post puts this into a better perspective for me. Like I said above, I was drunk when I read the Ken "The Bolt Chopper" thread and may have responded a bit, um... rashly.
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chossmonkey
Nov 5, 2008, 2:36 PM
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alpenweg wrote: what is the OP?
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sbaclimber
Nov 5, 2008, 2:38 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: alpenweg wrote: what is the OP? ********
(note, I didn't quote it, so you may still go back and delete it )
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Nov 5, 2008, 2:38 PM)
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chossmonkey
Nov 5, 2008, 2:38 PM
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HappinessIsWinning wrote: Awesome response, this is by far the most informative reply. I would have to say your post puts this into a better perspective for me. Like I said above, I was drunk when I read the Ken "The Bolt Chopper" thread and may have responded a bit, um... rashly.
Banz him Jay!!!
Banz him!!!!!
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chossmonkey
Nov 5, 2008, 2:42 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: chossmonkey wrote: alpenweg wrote: what is the OP? ******** damnit chossy, are you allowed to give the correct answer in the 2nd response to a question!?
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sbaclimber
Nov 5, 2008, 2:44 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: sbaclimber wrote: chossmonkey wrote: alpenweg wrote: what is the OP? ******** damnit chossy, are you allowed to give the correct answer in the 2nd response to a question!? Since it will get lost anyway, yes.
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