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clmbr121
Apr 14, 2005, 2:07 PM
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I need to solicit some help from our little nook of paradise here on rc.com.
Chuck (cyaniderush) and I are taking a friend of our climbing in the Gunks this weekend, his first time on multipitch. While discussing the gear we needed, we suggested that he pick up a brain bucket. After claiming that the one size didn't fit (which we know it did), he said he would just use his bike helmet instead.
Jump ahead, we convinced him to get an actual climbing helmet, but couldn't resist taking this further. This was in spired by the Ask Men article on how to rock climb.
Yes, my friends, he is now going to buy suction cups.
Now, the real test, and where I need you, loyal posters, to give me some help. What can we tell him to do with them? It needs to be something outrageous, but not so off the wall that he doesn't buy it.
The payoff? Oh, this will be well documented. We will post pictures.
So...ideas?
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phaedrus
Apr 14, 2005, 2:23 PM
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Just tell him he has to put one on each foot, one on each knee, and one on each of the palms of his hands.
AND GET PICTURES FOR US!!! :D
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pendereki
Apr 14, 2005, 2:35 PM
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Toilet plungers make great suction cup substitutes and the red ones are very photogenic!! I will be watching for the TR.
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macherry
Apr 14, 2005, 2:36 PM
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i'm assuming you're using the term "friend" loosely here
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clmbr121
Apr 14, 2005, 2:40 PM
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In reply to: i'm assuming you're using the term "friend" loosely here
He is a friend. However, he is a friend who was an Eagle Scout, and therefore is Keeper of Knowldges of All Things Outside. We're just taking him down a notch here.
And having a little fun. Come on, suction cups?
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climberpunk
Apr 14, 2005, 2:50 PM
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russian aiders? a baseball cup? but for the suction cup, how big? maybe stick them to each other, then use it as an "energy absorbing quickdraw", properly backed up of course.
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oklahoma_climber
Apr 14, 2005, 3:17 PM
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In reply to: This was in spired by the Ask Men article on how to rock climb.
that article is hilarious here... but i really wonder how many idiots its going to inspire, not to mention the well-meant ignorance it spreads.
sad day.
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taino
Apr 14, 2005, 3:53 PM
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They might get used a lot at a hanging belay - you know, for that added protection in case the bomber anchor just isn't enough. Put them on your knees and hands.
They might get used when pulling roofs, so that you can get a good hold where there is none. Put them on knees, hands, or both.
Can't you take him to Peterskill?? Yegods, I want to see this...
T
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climberpunk
Apr 14, 2005, 4:14 PM
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ooh! tell him to use them on slopers!
In reply to: "Rock climbing is incredibly dangerous. You need to be tremendously physically fit in order to stay alive -- blunt, but true." "Now that you've learned the basics, you're ready to enroll in a climbing course and impress everyone with your knowledge. If you follow the proper procedure, you'll have the time of your life, even if you might still be scared. From there, it's only a matter of time before you can be like Sylvester Stallone in Cliffhanger. If anything, you'll be able to impress hotties like Charisma Carpenter, Ashley Judd, Evangeline Lilly, and Lucy Liu, who are into the sport"
that article ruled. a lot. i love seeing how ppl who have no idea what the hell they are talking about view the sport. I especially liked the part about not lifting your arms above your head.
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microbarn
Apr 14, 2005, 4:17 PM
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Strap two to his back and tell him they help during chimneys. What else can he use to hold on to the wall that is behind him.
Chimneys are horrible no matter what, the suction cups on the back should only add to it.
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all_that_is_rock
Apr 14, 2005, 4:28 PM
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god damnit, this ask men suction cup thing stole my idea. I was planing on free soloing dirty chimney (5.0) with a full rack of plungers on a buisy day in the gunkx.
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theledge
Apr 14, 2005, 4:29 PM
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If you can do it with a straight face have him strap them to his chest. tell him they are for protection against a fall on slab climbs.
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bluenose
Apr 14, 2005, 4:59 PM
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Get the ones that the window installers use. They are pretty cool, handles and air release valves. You could actually climb a glass building with two of these things. Borrow some from someone, or rent them form an equipment rental place, they would be the best.
Used on those faces that have been worn smooth by a lot of climber traffic. Gives you something to hold onto while placing a good piece or clipping a bolt or just getting a grip when all else fails. Usually only used by newer climbers until they get good at gripping the grains on the rock. Nobody keeps using them, even though they are easier, as they are considered AID climbing gear, which is why he won't see any other climbers at the face with them.
Jeff.
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mlcrisis
Apr 14, 2005, 5:11 PM
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http://onlinecatalog.anixter.com/common/images/viewex/PR7394V1.JPG
get him 2 of these, one for each hand, for the really steep sections....
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cyaniderush
Apr 14, 2005, 6:11 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: i'm assuming you're using the term "friend" loosely here He is a friend. However, he is a friend who was an Eagle Scout, and therefore is Keeper of Knowldges of All Things Outside. We're just taking him down a notch here. And having a little fun. Come on, suction cups?
Yeah our "friend" was also under the misconception that if he held the rope I was clipped into, he'd be able to hold me in the event of a fact 1 fall...while standing on top...without being clipped in...weighing in at about 40 pounds less than me...he's a toothpick....with a bad grasp of physics....
I guess you could PM me for the whole story, but needless to say He nearly got me killed.
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curt
Apr 14, 2005, 6:26 PM
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In reply to: ...From there, it's only a matter of time before you can be like Sylvester Stallone in Cliffhanger....
And what real climber doesn't aspire to that ultimate goal?
Curt
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cyaniderush
Apr 14, 2005, 6:30 PM
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In reply to: They might get used a lot at a hanging belay - you know, for that added protection in case the bomber anchor just isn't enough. Put them on your knees and hands. They might get used when pulling roofs, so that you can get a good hold where there is none. Put them on knees, hands, or both. Can't you take him to Peterskill?? Yegods, I want to see this... T
We actually are going to be at the Gunks this weekend, trad climbing on saturday and bouldering on sunday, maybe we'll swing by. Look for us, Brian(clmbr121) and I will try and make sure he wears the suction cups hanging off his harness.
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zozo
Apr 14, 2005, 6:35 PM
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In reply to: Yeah our "friend" was also under the misconception that if he held the rope I was clipped into, he'd be able to hold me in the event of a fact 1 fall...while standing on top...without being clipped in...weighing in at about 40 pounds less than me...he's a toothpick....with a bad grasp of physics.... I guess you could PM me for the whole story, but needless to say He nearly got me killed.
So.....uh.... you let him do this? Who's the dumb ass?
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cyaniderush
Apr 14, 2005, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Yeah our "friend" was also under the misconception that if he held the rope I was clipped into, he'd be able to hold me in the event of a fact 1 fall...while standing on top...without being clipped in...weighing in at about 40 pounds less than me...he's a toothpick....with a bad grasp of physics.... I guess you could PM me for the whole story, but needless to say He nearly got me killed. So.....uh.... you let him do this? Who's the dumb ass?
Technically, no. I do understand it seems that way. So in an affort to make me not look like such a dumbass(or to make it worse) here's what happened:
The two of us were sport climbing in Mocanaqa(spelling?)
Totally pumped out, I got to the spot where the repell anchors should have been only to find that someone sawed off all of the repel anchors all the way across. He lowered me off my last piece and I cleaned the others on the way down. On the side of the Library(the area we were climbing in) there's 5.4ish climb that leads to the top. I made a coil pack and tied the rope to my back and followed him up with the intention of repelling off the top and getting the gear back. So we were climbing without any sort of protection, but it was in a corner and relatively easy going(Maybe 60' high, I forget how high the library at Mocanaqa is).
He topped out and I was about 15 feet from the top when I hit a problem. The corner flaired out so that it was parallel with the rock face that I was climbing. Francois, standing 6'1 and weighing all of 140 pounds fit right between the rocks to the top. Well me I'm a bit beefier. I'm 5'7 and 180 pounds. My head fit into the gap(turned to the side, but the top of my chest couldn't even fit. I figure it might be the rope tied as a coil on my back. In the very corner was a huge hand hold(the only good one in fact) and I jammed my feet and knees into the corner to free up my left hand. I untied the rope(holding it in my teeth just incase it fell) and swung the end of it to Francois. No go, I still didn't fit.
Outside of the corner, which I couldn't climb because I'm to broad, there were no really solid holds. The closest one was up and left, according to Francois it was a big two handable jug, but I'd have to dino out of the corner and up about four or five feet to land it. So I told Francois to tie a figure eight and clip a locking biner into it and then tie it around a tree, then to lower it to me.
Now my arms are getting tired. About a minute later I see the Biner coming down. I figure it's been too soon for him to have tired it around a tree so I ask how big the tree is he's used. "Oh dude, it's ok I'm holding this end, I've got you if you fall, just clip in" I don't think I really have to get into how futile it was to argue with him(who thinks a bike helmet work just the same as a climbing helmet) while I'm holding on and getting weaker. I screamed a few obscenities to get my point across and told him to tie it around a tree. A minute or two go by REALLY REALLY slowly. Finially here comes the biner again. I cliped myself in, hoping in my head that he found a nice sturdy tree. In probably the luckiest dino move ever, I stick the jug, and it really is bomber. I hoist myself over the top and follow the rope to the tree he used. It's about as around as my forearm and is half brown and half green. It would not have held my fall, if I had fallen.
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climbsomething
Apr 14, 2005, 7:22 PM
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Gee. You all make it sound like this one poor bastard's outing is the only time to see hopeless gumby action. Like 99 out of 100 of you couldn't turn the cameras on yourselves at any time.
Y'all like campfire songs? Check out my sig and get out a harmonica.
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clmbr121
Apr 14, 2005, 7:39 PM
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To reply to Climbsomething's post:
Not at all. We are merely having some fun with a friend of ours. I am very aware of faux pas I have made, and know I will make many more. I understand you comments, as many here on rc.com are ready to flame anybody who shows a bit of ignorance to the sport, and it often comes off as an attempt to make themselves feel better while in the presence of better/more experienced climbers. A sad fact of our little hamlet here in cyberspace.
However, we will let him in on the joke...after some incriminating photos have been taken, of course. There is no ill-intent. Its more "Candid Camera" than "Spot the Noob". Fortunately for us, he has a good sense of humor.
That being said, part 1 of how things have played out so far...Part II: A plan is hatched to follow soon.
“I’ll just wear my bike helmet.”
These words rang in my ears. I had quit my job at Return Every Item 2 months ago. Partly because of professional issues, but I would be lying if having to answer inane questions and listen to the nonsensical raving of ignorant customers didn’t factor into the decision as well. I was much happier at the new position, shuffling piles of papers from one side of my desk to the other. There was less responsibility, regular hours, better pay, and friends from college. I had more time at home, more time with my fiancé, more time for me.
And with this new found freedom, I actually had time to go climbing again, something that always seemed to have to take a second seat to everything else for the past several months. (Rather ironic, I feel, seeing as how I was previously employed by the largest climbing gear dealer in the country.)
Of course, with climbing more often came the urge to go back up to New York to climb on some real rock. Chuck and I started making plans a month prior, getting our gear sorted, buying what we needed, and so on. Then, a week before we go, he drops the bomb: Frenchie is coming with us.
I have no problems with Frenchie. He’s a really nice kind, generally optimistic, talks during movies (so much so that John won’t go near him anymore for fear of inflicting bodily harm upon his person), good guy to have around. But three people climbing definitely slows things down a bit. No worries. This will still be fun, I can take Frenchie up on his first multipitch, good times.
The emails start flying about. We start talking gear, what he needs to bring. We mention the need of a helmet. He agrees. He goes down to the local Expensive Mountain Shit to try one on. It is too small, he says. I furrow my brow.
“That’s the size I wear,” I tell him. “Chuck wears that size, and he’s got a larger melon than either of us.”
“Yeah, but what if I have long hair, or want to wear a hat? The strap was opened as far as it would go when I got it on.”
Again, I am puzzled. “So when you opened the strap up all of the way, the helmet fit?” He concurred. I tried to explain that the hair really wouldn’t be an issue, and that there was no need to wear a hat under the helmet.
“I’ll just wear my bike helmet.”
I should have let this go. I had explained to him why this wouldn’t work, why a bike helmet was designed for blunt force impact on relatively even surfaces, and why it would be split open like a cantaloupe should he take any piercing damage. He still didn’t see the light, and I should have just let it go. It would have made for a spectacular picture, him climbing at one of the most popular crags on the East Coast in his bike helmet. But the more prudent side of me, the one that visualized the ensuing rescue that would have to be mounted to pull Frenchie’s dent-riddled skull form the side of the cliff. I tried again.
After several conversations, he finally relented and agreed that $60 wasn’t too much to spend on a proper helmet.
Steve Riches wrote an article about rock climbing for an e-mag. A quote from his work:
“When the face of the mountain doesn't offer any more grips and holds, some experienced climbers pull out suction cups and similar tools to climb up. This is a very dangerous method.”
To be clear, suction cups are not used for climbing purposes. At least not rock climbing. And most suction cups available only can hold 25 pounds or so. But this gave us an idea.
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scuclimber
Apr 14, 2005, 7:56 PM
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Sounds good so far. You may want to edit the paragraph beginning "I have no problems with Frenchie..."
Colin
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cchildre
Apr 14, 2005, 8:14 PM
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To keep it from sounding too outlandish. Have him get two and tell him to rack them onto his harness and when the route gets tough he can pull one out, stick it on and use it as a handhold or foothold. Go do some sick slab route and watch him pull them out because they will be nearly impossible to apply. This is going to be funny! But if you can pull the suggestion earlier and have him wear them on foot and knee it would make a great shot. LMAO you guys are twisted.....but I like it.
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clmbr121
Apr 14, 2005, 8:27 PM
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Part II: Where’s My Spider Man Suit?
It started innocently enough: a weekend of climbing at a beautiful crag during what looked like would be excellent weather. The plan started innocently as well:
“Hey Frenchie, before we go, could you go pick up some suction cups?
http://www.catalognavigator.com/...panyid=78121&catid=5" Source: e-mail sent on Wednesday, April 13, 2005
The reply:
“Sure, right after I get my Spiderman suit.
But if you were being serious, the largest only holds 25 pounds” Source: e-mail reply, Wednesday, April 13, 2005
Ah, an opening. A chink in his logic armor, so to speak. There is a little irony here: Frenchie, you see, was an Eagle Scout. He had spent quite a few days outside, and has been rock climbing before. And there was a part of him that wasn’t buying this line of bull for second. But then, a little voice in the back of his head spoke up…
Later that night, he called me to make sure that a bike helmet would not suffice, and I passed on my sagely advice and holy wisdom on the matter. He relented, and all was well.
The following day, on a lark, I e-mailed him and asked if he had picked up those suction cups yet. I figured that good ole horse sense would prevail and he would know that I was pulling his leg. Oh, but I couldn’t be more wrong:
“No, I haven’t any up yet. I’ll try and get some from Lowes tonight, but if not I’ll try Expensive Mountain Shit when I get my helmet tomorrow, but I didn’t see any.”
A full minute passed, and I only realized my mouth was agape because of the large fly that flew in. (Mmm…protein.) He was serious. He believed every sarcastic word I spoon fed him.
Forget about a chink in his armor, this was gaping hole. And one that could not be ignored.
But, as for any good con, we needed more people. So first, I made a call to my former employer, the aforementioned Expensive Mountain Shite (I had defected from Evil Green Empire East to the Evil Green Empire West in the summer of 2003). After securing the aid of Ridgway and Ed, I moved on to our little hamlet, rc.com and asked you, faithful readers, for more fodder for the back story.
The plan was set, the players in place, the catalyst action ready, and my finger poised to send the email that would get this snowball rolling…
Up next: Part III: The Peterskill Plan
More tomorrow...I have to try and write this epic to certain literary standards while still mmoving massive amounts of money from one place to another.
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taino
Apr 14, 2005, 8:56 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: They might get used a lot at a hanging belay - you know, for that added protection in case the bomber anchor just isn't enough. Put them on your knees and hands. They might get used when pulling roofs, so that you can get a good hold where there is none. Put them on knees, hands, or both. Can't you take him to Peterskill?? Yegods, I want to see this... T We actually are going to be at the Gunks this weekend, trad climbing on saturday and bouldering on sunday, maybe we'll swing by. Look for us, Brian(clmbr121) and I will try and make sure he wears the suction cups hanging off his harness.
I'll likely be at Peterskill all weekend, unless plans change drastically. Look for the bald guy with glasses and a goatee, with a yellow Petzl Ecrin Roc helmet that says "This is NOT a foothold."
Regardless, PLEASE take pictures!!!
T
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cyaniderush
Apr 15, 2005, 1:23 AM
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You guys would not believe how hard it is to find something as simple as a suction cup. Lowes, home depot, sears, none of them had any. We had to improvise with a plunger head(sorry honey, I'll get a new one) :wink:
Here's a shot of the "Suction Pro"
With a price tag, bag and receipt from EMS(thanks dude behind the counter!)
http://img35.echo.cx/...5/74/dsc017949mf.jpg
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climb_in
Apr 15, 2005, 1:26 PM
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oh my god, this entire thread is the funniest thing i've seen on this site so far. . .
hope the mark stays into it long enough to get plenty of incriminating pictures. and this guy was an eagle scout? that's the best part!!!
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clmbr121
Apr 15, 2005, 2:07 PM
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Part III: The Peterskill Plan
I had to stop for a moment and take stock of what we were doing. Was I taking this too far? Was I taking unfair advantage of a friend’s overly trusting nature? I mean, he has only limited exposure to rock climbing, has never been on a multipitch…perhaps I should just call the whole thing off and confess the whole ruse.
I pondered this as Chuck and I wandered the hallowed halls of the King of Prussia Mall, the largest mall on the east coast, searching for an apparatus that would meet our needs to continue the charade. I think if we had found a suction cup right away that I wouldn’t have had as much time to really think this over; alas, none of the stores we searched had the equipment we required. But the longer we searched, the more I thought, “Should we go through with this?” But then the little devil that sits on my other shoulder put the image of the look on Frenchie’s face while trying to stick this thing to the rock wall and I bust out laughing. The people around me starting giving me strange looks…and who wouldn’t give a strange look to the guy laughing at nothing in particular. They lock those kind of people away for a while. At any rate, the Plan was on.
I am sure you have all been waiting with baited breath to hear about the Plan. Pay attention now, because this is as fine a piece of subterfuge mastery, planning and execution as there ever was that involved suction cups. And there will be a quiz later.
The Plan required timing, convincing acting, diversion, and all around sneakiness. Fortunately, I have been trained in the mystical arts of Ken-Fu-Do and vampire hunting by none other than South Jersey’s Master Hunter, Monsignor Ken T. Saverece. Armed with this sagely wisdom, a Farmer’s Almanac, and a computer with a high-speed internet connection, executing the Plan would be possible.
A good plan is a simple one, one that can be easily executed and can be adapted when the inevitable wrench is thrown in. While keeping it flavored with intrigue and subterfuge, overly complicated plans tend to fail, or even worse, backfire. So when we putting the infrastructure of the Plan together, we had to constantly reign ourselves back in to keep it from spinning wildly out of control.
The first obstacle we needed to clear was having someone else ruin the Plan by telling Frenchie the Truth. He was heading to Evil Green Empire East to pick up his helmet and to check to see if they carried any suction cups. Ah, the first wrench was thrown.
Not to worry, though. I called up a friend who still worked for Evil Green. After explaining the situation, and determining that the manager of the store in question had no known sense of humor other than firing people (“You’re fired! Ha ha!”), a manager at a different store offered that if we could get a suction cup to him, he would tag it and put it in his store to sell to our unsuspecting victim. The ball was rolling once again.
Now a new issue arose: how to lure Frenchie to come out to King of Prussia from Center City Philadelphia (about an hour drive during rush hour, further exasperated by the fact that Frenchie took Inepta to his place of work). I emailed him:
I just got off the phone with Evil Green…the KoP store has some suction cups in stock, but apparently they’re the only store in the area with any left…probably because the manager climbs and always has the place stocked…they called over to UPenn to see if they had any close to you, but they usually don’t carry them. The manager at KoP said he can only hold them for tonight…can you get there, or do you want me to swing by to pick them up for you? Let me know.
Wrench #2: he couldn’t make it out there until the day we were supposed to leave, so could I pick one up for him. This was a little damaging to the illusion; had he gone into an outdoor gear store and seen one for sale, the idea would be firmly planted that this was a “legitimate” piece of gear. Now, we would be handing him something that we “bought”, and the seed of doubt could still be there.
Plans, good plans, require time to put together. Chuck and I were certainly at a disadvantage trying to direct someone’s behavior on such short notice. Had we more time, even another day or so, things would not have been as rushed and we could have spent the time truly polishing the illusion to a gleaming luster. But being that we were making all of this up on the fly, it was going rather well, albeit a little nerve racking that his more sensible side would finally come to from its NyQuil and Sudefed-induced coma.
This could still work. The “inside man” at Evil Green had agreed to put a store-made price tag on it regardless and hook us up with a bag to make the apparatus more authentic. Now, we needed to build.
It comes with some degree of shock exactly how difficult it is to find a suction cup when you need one. Apparently there are only a few esoteric, exotic dealers that actually manufacture or carry such devices; I can only imagine that this is because while making legitimate devices for moving glass and tile, they must also have a side business or illegally producing those fancy suction cup/glass cutter combination contraptions that ever cat burglar in every movie seems to own. However, not being a cat burglar or having any ties to the underworld at all, we knew not where to find such a simple device. We made several calls, but to no avail. So a sacrifice had to be made.
http://img35.echo.cx/...5/74/dsc017949mf.jpg
R.I.P. Sammy the Plunger and 1 Mammut runner. Sammy is survived by a 2 foot pole and one night of bad fajitas.
It was a scene of epic macabre, seeing Chuck enter the room with the plunger head in one hand (which I certainly hoped he washed before feeding me those peeled grapes) and a power drill in the other. After some minor surgery, the “pro” was ready to go.
Later that evening, Frenchie called. By the initial tone in his voice, I was almost sure he was on to me.
“Joanne told me to call you…”
No sooner did these words exit his mouth than I was sure the gig was up. I, in a truly male moment, had run late that evening trying to gather the needed parts to construct the Bushido Climbing Suction Pro™ (soon at a store near you), and had not been able to get back home in time to meet my fiancé at the gym as I had promised. This was compounded by the fact that I was leaving the next night for said trip, and we miss each other terribly when I’m gone. So I was thinking to myself that because I had broken my promise and missed our date, she had told Frenchie (who swims at the same gym) about our plot.
“…to harass you about not coming to the gym tonight.” Call me Neo, ‘cause I just dodged a bullet. The Plan was still a go.
But would he actually believe us when we showed this thing to him? Would some unsuspecting soul make mention to him while hiking to the climb of the suction cup he had racked up? How long could we keep this going? And when were we to finally let him in on this?
All questions to be answered soon, my interesting cragging friends, as we leave tonight for the Gunks. Stay tuned for on Monday, we will conclude our tale.
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taualum23
Apr 15, 2005, 2:20 PM
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I am seriously considering blowing off the bachelor party in DC this weekend to hit th gunks to look for the kid with the plunger-top hanging off his harness. "Dude...is the the new Bushido Suction Pro? Sweet...I can't find one anywhere."
I can barely wait till monday.
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cerikpete
Apr 15, 2005, 2:50 PM
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And me with no rate button. :evil:
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clmbr121
Apr 15, 2005, 3:07 PM
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Wrench #3: When a friend writes in an email:
"By the way, heard you were climbing this weekend, don’t forget your suction cups for climbing"
It is astounding the possible reprecussions that 5 little words can have...kind of like, "Brian, we need to talk." 5 words have torn down entire worlds.
We will have to see if this little slip of the tongue will derail the whole operation. Hopefully we have seeded this idea enough that he doesn't suspect that we are baiting him on this. We do have going for us that he believed us with very little prodding when this all started.
There is a bright side...if he buys this, I will be much more comfortable that he won't call bullshit when we hand him the plunger with a runner through it.
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clmbr121
Apr 18, 2005, 1:20 PM
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Part IV: French Aiding
The universe is a very comforting place. Karma has a way of keeping the balance of things intact, or righting wrongs and making sure that, even if in small measure, people get what they deserve. In other words: Karma is a bitch. More on that later.
So, to answer the question that has been burning in the back of your mind all weekend, the thing that kept you up at night I’m sure:
He bought it.
We arrived up at the multi-use camp site around 11:00 on Friday night to find that the parking lot was very full. He got the tents pitched, and because dumb-ass that I am I forgot my sleeping bag, I slept in the truck. Nice early start the next morning, and we were at the base of Frog’s Head before 8:00 am. First ones.
As we began to rack up, I handed him the “Suction Pro” and he took it without blinking. He strapped the thing on to his harness, ready to go. I was about halfway up Frog’s Head (5.6) when another wayward climber asked him about the suction cup on his harness, and Frenchie told them about how it was for hanging gear off of the rock face. The other climber looked like he was about to say something to the contrary when Chuck quietly interceded.
About 30 minutes later, Frenchie joined us at the first belay at Frog’s Head. He was clipped in to the anchor and off belay.
“Uh, Frenchie,” Chuck said, trying to contain his grin, “we have a little confession to make.”
“What” he asked.
“You know that suction cup you just carried up?” I said. “Yeah, that doesn’t actually do anything.” Silence, nothing but the sound of other climbers clanking around the crag. “We’ve been leading you on for the last week.”
More silence.
Finally: “You assholes!”
He repeated this several more times, even as I began the second pitch. All in all, he took it very well.
So how does karma play a role in all of this?
High E made me its bitch.
We finished Frog’s Head, during which my route finding left something to be desired and I accidentally did a few moves on Sunshine (5.9). No biggie, we rapped back down and decided to hike on over to High Exposure. I was very much looking forward to taking them out on the stellar second pitch. It was not to be.
After a quick lunch, I started up Psychedelic. This is a great pitch, easy holds the whole way but with some interesting but subtle route finding.
(It was during this time that someone climbing a few routes over rapped off the ends of their ropes and dropped the last 8 feet to the ground right on his ass. After which he was heard to comment that he still wasn’t going to tie knots in the end of his ropes. Be sure to look for him in next year’s “Accidents in North American Mountaineering. I’m sure he’ll be there.)
After getting everyone up (I now owed Chuck a beer, as I promised him one if he could get all of my gear out), we traversed over to the belay ledge for High E. Frenchie dropped a bomb, an SBD that had Chuck seriously considering jumping and even bothered another climber on the ledge 30 feet away. Fortunately for me, a sinus infection had set in and I could barely smell a thing. The duo ahead of us made their way up, and then it was our turn.
I made my way up the right facing corner and traversed out to the edge of the ledge. It was starting to cool off as we were in the shade of the buttress and there was a breeze blowing, and I was pretty tired after leading the long first pitch up. Note to self: get my ass to the gym more. What ever the case was, I just couldn’t find any place to take pro. I know that its there, I’ve seen people place there, and I had gear that would go. But I couldn’t find anywhere to place.
It was during this time where karma decided to look my way. And unlike times where good karma is coming back to you and wraps you in her warm embrace, this was a vengeful karma, righting the wrong of having duped my poor noob friend. This was an icy stare, her frigid arms draped over my shoulders, and all I could hear was this frosty whisper in my ear, as intimate as a lover but as menacing as blood-starved wolf saying one thing: get down.
I couldn’t get the image out of my head of falling, of my gear ripping out, of falling further, of how the cliff would look as it grew further and further away, the feeling of weightlessness. I couldn’t stop thinking about Joanne (my fiancé) and me breaking my promise to her, the one I make every time I go climbing that I would always come back to her.
So, for the first time ever, I back off of a climb. I down climbed, pulled my gear, and we traversed to the nearest belay station and rapped down. Ooh, my injured pride.
I have climbed High E before (though never lead), I know the moves to get around the crux lip, and the exposure isn’t beyond anything I can handle. I know that I will go back and complete this climb on lead. But that day…karma had its way with me. I feel so used.
The rest of the weekend passed without incident, save someone lighting the forest on fire on Sunday morning due to a wayward camp fire. Hopefully this doesn't result in more camp ground closures, there are barely enough there now at the multi-use site as it is.
So if there is a lesson to be learned here, it is don’t make your friend think that they can use a suction cup to climb. And certainly don’t go as far as to actually give them a plunger on a runner to convince them of this. Because if you do, High E will make you its bitch.
And tie knots in your rap ropes.
And that only you can prevent forest fires.
(We are having a busy morning here at work, Chuck and I, but don’t worry…pictures are on their way. Come on, if I’m going to get scared off of a climb, I had better at least have pictures of a guy with a suction cup, right?)
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taualum23
Apr 18, 2005, 1:40 PM
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Awesome. SImply Awesome. The most important words in the whole post:
"he bought it."
Nice. And no worries about High E. She has made many a man (most likely stronger than you, surely stronger than me) back off. ANd Ms. Karma, she can be rough on you. Like a bipolar mistress with an alternating rage and nymphomanic mood swings, she will always keep you ion your toes and in your place. if she told you to back off a 5.6 (especially one like high e), then it was probably a damned good idea to do so.
I can't wait for the pics.
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tradman
Apr 18, 2005, 2:14 PM
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Funny!
But I'm still really glad that you're not my "friend", and I wouldn't climb with you in a million years! Not even if I was paid!
:lol:
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cyaniderush
Apr 18, 2005, 2:36 PM
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In reply to: Funny! But I'm still really glad that you're not my "friend", and I wouldn't climb with you in a million years! Not even if I was paid! :lol:
If it makes you feel better, I'm the more vendictive one who moved this joke along when Brian thought we should stop. So by all means climb with him, he's very competent. Just put me on your "do not climb with or befriend for fear of falling victim to a wacky joke" List. :lol: :wink:
Anyway, I'm currently working new student registration and I'll post the pictures in the early afternoon, when I'm back at my desk.
-Cheers!
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all_that_is_rock
Apr 18, 2005, 10:44 PM
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not to take anything away from your story, but Frogs Head is a 5.5...... at least in the Swain guide book
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curt
Apr 19, 2005, 1:05 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: not to take anything away from your story, but Frogs Head is a 5.5...... at least in the Swain guide book wich was written 15 years ago, before that climb got all polished, it usually gets a 6-.
6- ? No fucking way, 5+ tops!!!1111 Hahahahahaha
Curt
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nmoroder
Apr 19, 2005, 1:42 AM
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Are you really arguing a route being 5.5+ or 5.6-???
and I thought the plunger was stupid...
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off_center
Apr 19, 2005, 3:09 AM
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Outstanding. Looking forward to the pics where the suction cup is being used.
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clmbr121
Apr 19, 2005, 1:48 PM
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I will have more pictures soon. I still have a few pictures left on the disposable camera before I can take it in. Patience...I should hopefully have it all squared away by tomorrow.
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vertk8r
Apr 19, 2005, 2:02 PM
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Fabulous pics!!!
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taualum23
Apr 19, 2005, 2:29 PM
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Nice!!!!
I love the pic when it's being pointed to!
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slablizard
Apr 19, 2005, 3:00 PM
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Priceless:
Full-safety climbing: This is a lot like climbing a wall at the gym. You climb using existing grips while someone on the ground pulls on your rope to make it easier for you.
Bouldering: This method consists of climbing small boulders without any equipment. Basically, it's like hiking with some obstacles thrown in.
Free climbing: With this most common style of climbing, the equipment you use is for safety only -- not to facilitate the process. This is the method you see in movies.
Aid climbing: When the face of the mountain doesn't offer any more grips and holds, some experienced climbers pull out tools like hooks, nuts, camming devices, ascenders, hauling pulleys, aiders, and wall hammers to climb up. This is a very dangerous method.
Soloing: Definitely the most hazardous climbing style, soloing consists of climbing an entire wall or mountain with absolutely no safety equipment. Many of the best climbers don't even do it.
Belaying: This is not really a style but rather a technique that can be used in both free climbing and aid climbing. Two climbers hook up a rope between them and climb in succession, anchoring the cable along the way. This keeps you from falling all the way to the ground.
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onsight_endorphines
Apr 19, 2005, 3:07 PM
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That is TOO GOOD!!!
I got enough weird ass looks today at work to last the rest of the year.
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amber
Apr 19, 2005, 3:30 PM
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excellent writing. thanks for the narrative and pics.
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philbox
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Apr 20, 2005, 5:18 AM
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Gold trophies all round. Excellent prank.
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onsight_endorphines
Apr 20, 2005, 12:27 PM
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Intelligent post Tradman. You make it sound like the guy took a 50' whipper onto a plunger.
In reply to: you'll have to watch a "friend" die in screaming with shattered legs because of your stupidity. Look forward to it, it'll be your wake up call!
Please tell us you didn't mean to say that...
EDIT Added the following:
This has to be a misunderstanding :wink:
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cyaniderush
Apr 20, 2005, 12:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Just put me on your "do not climb with or befriend for fear of falling victim to a wacky joke" List. Not really that list, you'd go on the, "thinks putting his partners at risk of injury or death is funny" list. You suck at climbing, but don't worry, one day one of your "pranks" will go wrong and you'll have to watch a "friend" die in screaming with shattered legs because of your stupidity. Look forward to it, it'll be your wake up call! :righton:
Please let me know that you're being sarcasting and that you were only being unfriendly as a joke.
If you read carefully, at no point did we allow Francois to be in an sort of extra danger(beyond normal rock climbing) because of said joke. We never told him that the plunger would support HIM like normal pro. We had always been telling him that it would hold his gear on the wall, like his chalk bag, water bottle, etc...
Maybe you just mis-read, that's cool. I understand and I do it all the time. If that's the case, no harm done.
But to lash out like that is uncalled for and rude.
I surely hope that no one you know is ever injured climbing and it's ashame you'd wish harm upon another climber just to "teach me a lession".
Edited for clarity
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 1:06 PM
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Aaaaw, you poor baby.
Believe me, I wouldn't wish harm, any more than I'd wish a climbing partner like you, on my worst enemy. But it will happen to you because you have no grasp of responsibility or safety, and someone else will pay a horrifying price. It's where you're headed, enjoy!
;)
In a sport where trust is paramount, anyone who deliberately abuses the trust their partners place in them, especially for a cheap laugh, should walk away from the rock before they kill someone.
I know you think this is really funny. I know you think it makes you really cool. But here's the bottom line: you lied to an inexperienced climber and lumbered him with innapropriate equipment which could have been the cause of an accident when he tried to use it. You lied to and abused the trust of a beginner so you could point and laugh at him.
You obviously think that makes you cool. I think it makes you just another bully who hasn't got the balls to lead by example.
So, feeling big and clever now are you?
:lol:
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cyaniderush
Apr 20, 2005, 1:10 PM
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Actually I think it's you who are the bully. You prowl around here looking for a situation where you can lash into someone you percieve as below you.
At no point did I put his safety in danger.
That's the bottom line.
edit: he is also no a beginer. He's been climbing for over a year now.
Also, why are you making this such an attack upon me? If you were truely concerned about lack of safety in climbing and wanted to impress upon me the mistake that you percieve I'm making, then why would you personally attack me? Why wouldn't you just logically explain you points and let me and everyone on this board take what they will from it?
What purpose does trying to belittle me have in furthering your point?
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 1:19 PM
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You put his safety in danger by deliberately giving him the wrong equipment for the job. Your inability to see that is frightening.
That you then boasted about it here - WITH PICS!!!! says things about you that I don't think you're able to face.
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reno
Apr 20, 2005, 1:20 PM
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In reply to: They might get used a lot at a hanging belay - you know, for that added protection in case the bomber anchor just isn't enough. Put them on your knees and hands.
Get your own suction cups beforehand, and cut a hole in the center. Then run the anchor rope from the anchor (tree, bolt, etc.) through the hole before making it into the powerpoint. Then stick the suction cup so it is visible, appearing as if it is the anchor.
Or, have him tie the suction cups to his butt, facing out, so in case he falls, the suction will hold him to the wall.
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cyaniderush
Apr 20, 2005, 1:27 PM
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In reply to: You put his safety in danger by deliberately giving him the wrong equipment for the job. Your inability to see that is frightening. That you then boasted about it here - WITH PICS!!!! says things about you that I don't think you're able to face.
Francois was on top rope. he needed no additional equipement aside from his harness, shoes, helmet, slings and biners. His job was to follow, and since we were a group of three, his job didn't even include cleaning.
I'm not really sure what it is that you're alluding to at the end.
I did edit my last post with some additional info, repasting it here incase you had posted this while I was editing:
"Also, why are you making this such an attack upon me? If you were truely concerned about lack of safety in climbing and wanted to impress upon me the mistake that you percieve I'm making, then why would you personally attack me? Why wouldn't you just logically explain you points and let me and everyone on this board take what they will from it?
What purpose does trying to belittle me have in furthering your point?"
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clmbr121
Apr 20, 2005, 1:27 PM
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Ah, my first flame. My cherry has been popped. I will never forget my first time. Was it good for you, too?
But we enjoy the occaisional flame here on rc.com, yes?
Well, I did not expect to see something like that this morning. I merely came on to give the fans what they wanted, but I guess there is a little bit of business that needs to be dealt with.
So, here is my carefully and craftily worded response to the attack on my character:
Whah. Cry about it.
I'm not going to dissect every thing you put in your posts here, Tradman. I am not going to look up how many times you have posted in the last month or when you joined. I am not going to troll around your previous posts in other forums to see what kind of person you are. Judgement has been reserved.
For the record, the safety of the people climbing with me always comes first. To tell someone that a plunger would be used for holding their chalk bag is not putting theirs or anyone else's health and well-being at risk.
And just to finish this part of my post off, you don't know me. You have never climbed with me. You don't know what motivates me to climb, what I have seen or have done, or friends that I may or may not have lost. You may speculate all that you wish (I'm sure you will), and you may post these deep thoughts here for us all to ponder and meditate on (again, I'm sure you will). But it will be nothing more than speculation on your part.
(Brushes dust off of sleeves)
Sorry you had to see that, kids. You should have seen the stuff that I edited out before posting...fit for neither man nor beast. An ugly side of myself I am not proud of...well, maybe a little...
But the moment I am sure you have all (or, I guess most...sniff, a fan is lost...) been waiting for:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=52669
A note on this: I am very relieved that it didn't actually stick. That would have been a head scratcher...I would not have seen that coming.
We also resisted the temptation of saying, "Oh, its not sticking? Maybe it needs to be moistened up...give it a lick..."
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 1:42 PM
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In reply to: you don't know me. You have never climbed with me.
Thank goodness. Wouldn't want to.
In reply to: You don't know what motivates me to climb, what I have seen or have done, or friends that I may or may not have lost.
No speculation necessary; your reference to your "fans", and your posting of your self-aggrandizing story say everything anyone needs to hear about your ego and why you climb.
You're a liar and a bully. Climb on!
:lol:
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clmbr121
Apr 20, 2005, 1:45 PM
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So give me your lunch money.
Doesn't sarcasm ring true with anyone any more?
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 1:49 PM
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:lol:
No thanks.
I prefer laughing while I watch you splutter and try to justify your stupidity.
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tradnomad
Apr 20, 2005, 1:55 PM
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Tradman,
You're way out in left field on this one. These guys played a practical joke on their buddy (which I happen to think was pretty funny), and went about it in a way that noone was going to get hurt (if you disagree with this, please explain how :P ).
They explicitly told him that it wasn't used for protection, and the plunger would never stick at all even if someone tried.
However, I think the whole thing does point out how naive/gullible people can be in trusting ridiculous information (i.e. a lot of the advice given to beginner's around here).
TN
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tradnomad
Apr 20, 2005, 2:11 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: However, I think the whole thing does point out how naive/gullible people can be in trusting ridiculous information (i.e. a lot of the advice given to beginner's around here). Exactly. Then I think more experienced climbers should be careful what advice they give to beginners, don't you?
Yes.
But there's no harm in this particular joke (besides embarassing the guy), he's never going to get into a situation where he tries to rely on the plunger for his safety.
If they had tried to convince him that jamming knots in cracks was the best thing to use for lead protection, then I would agree with almost everything you've said.
TN
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cracknut
Apr 20, 2005, 2:17 PM
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Lighten up tradman. You still havn't explained how anyone could have gotten hurt (other than pride) in this well thought out and IMO hilarious joke. Were you picked on a lot as a kid?
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 2:22 PM
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Not particularly. I bet you weren't though, you're clearly the type who just loves to kiss the other boy's asses and tell them how fabulous you think they are.
:lol:
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cracknut
Apr 20, 2005, 2:30 PM
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I'm not afraid to give credit where credit is due.
I would still love to hear how you believe this was dangerous.
Flame on
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 2:39 PM
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You mean you don't understand how it's dangerous to give beginners incorrect information about climbing techniques?
Wow.
I think you should stick to sucking up!
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onsight_endorphines
Apr 20, 2005, 2:42 PM
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hahahaha....niiiiiceee plunger pic...man that is the holy grail of funny climbing pics...
Your fun is in good taste, I appreciate that.
In reply to: I prefer laughing while I watch you splutter and try to justify your stupidity.
You feel better now Tradman? So that's what this is all about!! :idea: You simply think yours is bigger...
In your RC.com posting ego trip, please don't say anything that you'll regret later on.
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mnrock7
Apr 20, 2005, 2:44 PM
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I think that the most important thing on the link to "ask Men", or something like that, you get a chance to see what a real rock climber looks like. That man is Steve Richer, the writer of the article. I sure wish that I could pose like that for a picture.
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onsight_endorphines
Apr 20, 2005, 2:53 PM
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In reply to: Well, some folks like to bait their friends by lying to and humiliating them, I like to bait folks like you and climber121. It's called trolling, I enjoy it.
Clmbr121's joke was most likely constructive to the relationhip.
The troll is fair enough. If that's what gets you off, then hey...whatever floats yours...
In reply to: I'm not hurting anyone.
Nope, just irritating the fuck out of us.
In reply to: It's called trolling, I enjoy it.
TRADMAN IS A TROLL!!!
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 3:03 PM
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Oooh, we're down to name-calling now are we?
:lol:
I always think it's fun to see how bullies can't handle being treated the same way they treat others, don't you?
I'm glad you find me irritating. You don't like my posts and find they conflict with your prejudices, dogmas and ego-aspirations. That's good. Please allow me to extend you the invitation to killfile me right away.
There are intelligent, thoughtful usrs here who are informed and strong in debate, and who I would hesitate to troll. But you're not one of them.
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onsight_endorphines
Apr 20, 2005, 3:10 PM
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Quote from Tradman:
In reply to: Oooh, we're down to name-calling now are we? I always think it's fun to see how bullies can't handle being treated the same way they treat others, don't you? I'm glad you find me irritating. You don't like my posts and find they conflict with your prejudices, dogmas and ego-aspirations. That's good. Please allow me to extend you the invitation to killfile me right away. There are intelligent, thoughtful usrs here who are informed and strong in debate, and who I would hesitate to troll. But you're not one of them.
Like I said man, whatever floats yours.
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cracknut
Apr 20, 2005, 3:17 PM
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your words really hurt me trollman :cry:
oh well, I don't have anything better to do
I think your imagination has run away with you if you think there is going to be a rash of funewgies running around trying fabricate the hot new plunger pro. No one has talked about leading on suction cups. Besides if anyone is that dumb they deserve to be weeded out of the gene pool.
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 3:24 PM
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In reply to: By which, of course, he means agrees with him.
No no, quite the opposite. You, bumblie, danooguy, bluto, all have given me a hard run for my money. The purpose of debate is not to change the minds of others, it's to check whether your own mind needs changing.
This thread, "I'm so cool, check this out I totally fooled a beginner who didn't know any better, everybody kiss my ass" doesn't really fall into that category. so I'm just having some fun kicking people around. It's good for idiots to have their heads messed with once in a while.
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taualum23
Apr 20, 2005, 3:35 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: By which, of course, he means agrees with him. No no, quite the opposite. You, bumblie, danooguy, bluto, all have given me a hard run for my money. The purpose of debate is not to change the minds of others, it's to check whether your own mind needs changing. This thread, "I'm so cool, check this out I totally fooled a beginner who didn't know any better, everybody kiss my ass" doesn't really fall into that category. so I'm just having some fun kicking people around. It's good for idiots to have their heads messed with once in a while.
See, and here I was hoping to be able to, in a few minutes, say, "see, kid, the fact that he didn't respond to me shows him to be a master troll, not able to be baited himself. But, as you have responded, I must say thank you for the compliment, as much as we disagree, our disagreememnts are (usually) a lot more intelligent (though not as funny) than strapping a plunger on a nOOb.
Pretend for a second that it isn't dangerous (i'm not getting into the debate one way or another...just take as a given the premise that it is not going to harm anyone, ever), and this is pretty funny shit.
As far as kicking idiots around, the "I freakign hate smokers thread" was fun indeed. EIther that, or we ALL got trolled.
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onsight_endorphines
Apr 20, 2005, 3:36 PM
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In reply to: The purpose of debate is not to change the minds of others, it's to check whether your own mind needs changing.
Interesting. Ok.
In reply to: This thread, "I'm so cool, check this out I totally fooled a beginner who didn't know any better, everybody kiss my ass"
It's all in what you, as a person, make of it.
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yomomma
Apr 20, 2005, 3:38 PM
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Wow, Tradman, talk about getting a wild #4 camalot stuck up your butt! Congratulations on the most mean-spirited troll ever.
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 3:41 PM
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Thanks, yomomma.
And congratulations to you on slipping in that little climbing reference there to show everyone how credible you are. We all realise now that you should be taken seriously.
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onsight_endorphines
Apr 20, 2005, 3:42 PM
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I think there's a Badger in his ass...
But a #4 cam isn't comfortable either.
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cracknut
Apr 20, 2005, 3:46 PM
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"It's good for idiots to have their heads messed with once in a while."
-tradman
Case in point: an Eagle Scout who thinks he is the master of the outdoors
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 3:48 PM
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Mess with their head.
Not their life.
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cracknut
Apr 20, 2005, 3:52 PM
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You are so dramatic :shock: Who's life was in danger? The kid on toprope?
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 3:59 PM
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Hmmm, I see that you still haven't grasped how giving bogus advice to someone who doesn't know any better could be dangerous.
Back to the name-calling, the thinking's definitely not happening.
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theledge
Apr 20, 2005, 4:05 PM
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Tradman if you are going to call this dangerous you need to state why. Giving false info could be dangerous if they had not told the trouth at the end, or if they had tried to make him lead using these as pro in some form. This did not happen. As to name calling... you got called a troll....right after you called yourself one. WTF
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 4:07 PM
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Nah, that would be boring. I'm still enjoying reeling in suckers like you.
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onsight_endorphines
Apr 20, 2005, 4:08 PM
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In reply to: I see that you still haven't grasped how giving bogus advice to someone who doesn't know any better could be dangerous.
Keyword: Could be dangerous. Even if it isn't. In any way shape or form.
How are those cams and claws going Tradman?
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cracknut
Apr 20, 2005, 4:09 PM
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Saying you are dramatic is not name-calling. If I said you were a Drama Queen who sews up 5.4 and wears a helmet while sport climbing; that would be name calling.
BTW congrats on highjacking this thread.
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 4:12 PM
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Hey thanks man, it's going quite well don't you think?
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cracknut
Apr 20, 2005, 4:14 PM
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at the risk of regaining my status as a suck-up, I bow to your mastery of the troll
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onsight_endorphines
Apr 20, 2005, 4:18 PM
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hahaha...okay, 'twas fun but I'm through.
clmbr121: Absolutely hilarious post, thanks. My apologies for fueling the hijack.
Tradman: I recommend careful surgery with a Bosch Bulldog.
Later guys.
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theledge
Apr 20, 2005, 4:19 PM
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I forgot to mention to the OP that this was one of the best pranks I have seen pulled off. Congrats.
To tradman.... this is your idea of fun, trolling??? Oh well :roll: I just cant see where the pleasure is. but then again I cant figure out why people watch curling either. It just seems pointless and boring.
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kman
Apr 20, 2005, 4:26 PM
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In reply to: Not really that list, you'd go on the, "thinks putting his partners at risk of injury or death is funny" list.
hahaha...no danger about being on top rope with a suction cup hanging off your harness. Obviously when the deed is done the dudes laughed at him and told him it was a JOKE. Do you really think he would go and try and use one after being let in on the joke?
I think you were not trolling originally. It seems like you calling your self out as a troll is a way to save face after no one agreed with you :lol:
The only danger here was from instant karma :lol: She got you back good original poster.
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cracknut
Apr 20, 2005, 4:28 PM
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Ledge
how dare you diss curling in front of someone from Milwaukee. You better be careful the next time you slurp down a PBR or Milwaukee's Best. You may have become a target. Curling is one of the highest forms of athletisism, requiring cat-like reflexes, a keen intellect, and superior physical conditioning. The only sport that surpasses curling in it's depth and challenge is Broomball
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republiclimber
Apr 20, 2005, 4:32 PM
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it's a shame tradman doesn't have any photos in his profile, for some reason i am very curious to see how big he is.
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cracknut
Apr 20, 2005, 4:33 PM
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In reply to: it's a shame tradman doesn't have any photos in his profile, for some reason i am very curious to see how big he is.
Sounds like you have a fan tradman
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 4:36 PM
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Yeah but he's not very cute.
:cry:
Tradman is six foot four and weighs about two hundred and ten pounds. Why do you ask?
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curt
Apr 20, 2005, 4:39 PM
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In reply to: You put his safety in danger by deliberately giving him the wrong equipment for the job. Your inability to see that is frightening.
Oh, come on trad. You should be able to tell from the photos that the plunger in question is a fully UIAA / CE rated and certified Black Diamond plunger. No one was ever in any danger. :lol:
Curt
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tradman
Apr 20, 2005, 4:40 PM
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:lol:
AHAHAHAHAAAA!
thanks curt.
Sadly, it's after half five here and i have to go. later.
:wink:
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bigjonnyc
Apr 20, 2005, 4:49 PM
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Hey tradman, you say that they were endangering their friend by giving him bogus advice. However, if the wall were to have a smooth enough spot to accomodate a plunger, and he were to place it there, and hang his chalkbag, then wouldn't it follow that their advice wasn't in fact bogus at all? And in this case, the only danger that I could see involved would be if the plunger suction were to fail, and some poor chap below were hit in the head with a soft plunger or a fluffy bag of chalk. Let me tell you, that could definitely be cause for a trip to the emergency room.
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crimpandgo
Apr 20, 2005, 5:08 PM
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I haven't read all 8 pages, so forgive me if I cover ground that has already been covered.
So, You obviously found it pretty funny that this "friend" wanted to use his bike helmet....
Can you explain the differences in a bike helmet and a climbing helmet? What are each made of? Aside from the bike helmet looking silly at the crag, can you explain what features the climbing helmet has to protect your noggin that a bike helmet which is made to protect you noggin from hitting the ground or other objects at a high rate of speed won't give you.
Heck, if Lance trusts his helmet when he is travelling 60mph down a hillside, can you HONESTLY say the helmet wouldn't be satisfactory for rock climbing?
So, what was your beef with the bike helmet again? Why did that instigate your need to poke such fun at a person you call a "friend"?
Just curious..
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clmbr121
Apr 20, 2005, 5:23 PM
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Well, today has been fun.
A bike helmet, to answer your question, is made of closed-cell polyeurthane foam to absorb a certain kind of impact from certain directions. Would it suffice to absorb a similar impact while climbing? Yes.
However, a bike helmet has only a thin plastic shell surrounding it, and not a very functional one as far as impact resistance as not all helmets have it; it serves more as a way to reduce wind drag. And a bike helmet is not meant to protect against piecing objects, such as edges of rocks. It also only covers a specific portion of the skull.
Another note: one impact and its done.
A climbing helmet, on the other hand, has a similar closed cell foam that can absorb an impact; it also is surrounded by a resin shell that is much more resilient against repeated blows and sharp objects, features important to have in a climbing helmet. It is also more attuned to resisting side impacts (something a bike helmet is considerably weaker in). Climbing helmets also happen to have the nice feature of accomodating a head lamp, and as there were three of us on a busy weekend, and our friend was new to multi-pitch routes, I found that it might be prudent to have that feature, as you never know when you are going to get caught up in a crowd and will have to rap off in the dark.
Any other questions?
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kman
Apr 20, 2005, 5:28 PM
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I wouldn't count on a climbing helmet in a side impact.
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crimpandgo
Apr 20, 2005, 6:56 PM
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In reply to: Well, today has been fun. A bike helmet, to answer your question, is made of closed-cell polyeurthane foam to absorb a certain kind of impact from certain directions. Would it suffice to absorb a similar impact while climbing? Yes. However, a bike helmet has only a thin plastic shell surrounding it, and not a very functional one as far as impact resistance as not all helmets have it; it serves more as a way to reduce wind drag. And a bike helmet is not meant to protect against piecing objects, such as edges of rocks. It also only covers a specific portion of the skull. Another note: one impact and its done. A climbing helmet, on the other hand, has a similar closed cell foam that can absorb an impact; it also is surrounded by a resin shell that is much more resilient against repeated blows and sharp objects, features important to have in a climbing helmet. It is also more attuned to resisting side impacts (something a bike helmet is considerably weaker in). Climbing helmets also happen to have the nice feature of accomodating a head lamp, and as there were three of us on a busy weekend, and our friend was new to multi-pitch routes, I found that it might be prudent to have that feature, as you never know when you are going to get caught up in a crowd and will have to rap off in the dark. Any other questions?
I was being sarcastic. I know the differences in a bike helmet and a climbing helmet. I have both and use both.
But frankly, you have not proven to me that in most cases the bike helmet would not be perfectly sufficient for a climber going out the average crag for an average day of climbing. Especially for a nOOb who may never go again and certainly might not want to spend $70 dollars for a one day trip to the crag.
Heck, there was and article last weekend here in AZ about a person in an ironman competition who wacked a road sign going full speed, hard enough to crack the helmet. HE got up and finished to race without even sustaining a cuncussion. He did sustain a broken collerbone and a few other injuries to prove the severity of the impact.
I am not trying the disprove the benefits of a climbing helmet. Your points listed above are very valid and in fact are the reasons I own one. But to make to uninformed new climber feel stupid for considering using a bike helmet would only serve to discourage them from ever wanting to climb again and frankly is just misleading. What you wear on your head depends heavily on where you are planning to climb. To make that person go out and spend $70 without giving them all the facts is just wasting someones money.
Just my opinion though. Then again, I am not the kind of person to play practical jokes on others with the sole intent of making them look stupid, so what do I know.. right?? :)
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clmbr121
Apr 20, 2005, 7:15 PM
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Touche. And to each their own.
I concede to your point that if they were just going once, and a helmet was necesary, than yes a bike helmet would be fine. Our friend however climbs with us often and intends to continue climbing with us...the investment seemed worth it.
And just a side note...while his insistance on using the bike helmet piqued our curiosity, it was that when we joked with him about the suction cup and he bought it...well, we saw an opening, yadda yadda yadda, I tried to kill him, blah blah blah...you know the rest.
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bluenose
Apr 20, 2005, 8:10 PM
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Funny thing about the bike vs climb helmet.
I was at a shop looking at climbing gear...OK...drooling over the climbing gear... and the canoes....and bikes...etc.
Anyway, the first helmet I picked up was, except for some minor variation, the same construction as a bike helmet. The outer shell MAY have been a bit thicker and the shape was noticably rounder. Otherwise I would have figured they were interchangeable.
Having said that, I doubt that I would purchase a single impact type of helmet for climbing. Comparing to biking, It's not often you have to worry about things from above, so buy a decent shell hat over the foam.
Other than a bike hat looking a bit geeky at the face, most climbing helmets don't really look much better BTW, it certainly would be better than nothing and not very inferior either, at least for one good hit.
Oh, whether Tradman was trolling or not, he does make a valid point about the trust issue. I take risky sports serious enough that any goofing around doesn't involve the activity directly.
Having said that I thought the whole thing was amusing and enjoyed the pics. "Plumber Frenchie takes to the crags"? Mostly harmless fun.
Jeff.
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capcom1701
Apr 20, 2005, 8:39 PM
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There's gotta be something in my Complete Climbing History of the World about climbers pulling pranks... Ah, here's one about Yosemite... hmm, wearing a noose on the cliff... unbelievable! Here's on about yelling insults at a second, trying to make them fall, damn can't believe anyone would climb with that TM Herbert guy, geesh... Royal Robbins drinking Champagne after an ascent, despicable; a picture of John Long smiling at the crag, HORRORS!
:shock:
MUST NOT HAVE FUN WHILE CLIMBING, MUST NOT HAVE FUN, MUST NOT... ENJOY... :gasp:
Well played 121, well played... don't let the humorless get you down.
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sarcat
Apr 20, 2005, 9:55 PM
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wow.
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crimpandgo
Apr 20, 2005, 10:01 PM
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In reply to: Touche. And to each their own. I concede to your point that if they were just going once, and a helmet was necesary, than yes a bike helmet would be fine. Our friend however climbs with us often and intends to continue climbing with us...the investment seemed worth it. And just a side note...while his insistance on using the bike helmet piqued our curiosity, it was that when we joked with him about the suction cup and he bought it...well, we saw an opening, yadda yadda yadda, I tried to kill him, blah blah blah...you know the rest.
oops, didn't realize he was a "friend" and had been going with you. I thought it was a one time thing. Perhaps my stance was a bit harsh. I will make a personal note not get so "practical" next time. So sorry.
Please,, "prank-on" :):)
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blondgecko
Moderator
Apr 21, 2005, 12:49 AM
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:shock: :shock: :shock: Wow, Tradman. I've seen you go over the top many times before, but... wow.
Strange - it was almost getting to the point where I felt you were worthy of respect.
To the OP - thanks for the best laugh I've had in ages! :lol:
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jt512
Apr 21, 2005, 1:09 AM
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In reply to: Gee. You all make it sound like this one poor bastard's outing is the only time to see hopeless gumby action. Like 99 out of 100 of you couldn't turn the cameras on yourselves at any time.
Nice call, Hill.
Cyaniderush "bouldering":
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=48781
Who'd ever guess in a 1000 years that these bozos would be from Pennsylvania.
-Jay
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climbsomething
Apr 21, 2005, 1:44 AM
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HAHAHAHA
Lovely.
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poppasmearf
Apr 21, 2005, 2:12 AM
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AHHHH HA HA HA!!!! WHOOWEEEE!!! My how the tables have turned... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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cyaniderush
Apr 21, 2005, 3:10 AM
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In reply to: Who'd ever guess in a 1000 years that these bozos would be from Pennsylvania. -Jay
Hey, I can understand taking a jab at my beer gut or poor form, but what's with the PA ripping?
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clmbr121
Dec 19, 2005, 6:46 PM
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POST SCRIPT
Well, here it is, about 10 months later, and this thread has settled down into the depths of bulletin board infamy. Guess its about time to stir the waters and see what surfaces...call it a pre-Christmas treat. Something to read and pass the time as we all stare at our clocks on our computers, waiting, pleading for Friday to get here just a little bit quicker
10 months later. Wow. I can't believe its been that long. But in many ways, it feels longer. There were other repercussions from that infamous day with a boy and his plunger.
The next day, we decided to go bouldering before taking off to go home (yes, back to Pennsylvania). I think I got about 5 feet off of the ground when I started getting the tremors. My legs were shaking, my arms vibrating...I was seriously spooked. Apparently, the previous day's events on High E had longer lasting effects than I previously anticipated. I down climbed and decided to take pictures from the ground for the remainder of the day.
I think I went about 4 or 5 months without going near rock, indoor or out. I packed the gear away and didn't even think about it. Some part of me thought that I might have hung it up for good.
I finally got myself back into a gym some time in late August or September. The first boulder problem I sent, a juggy V1, had me sketched out just beneath the finishing holds, the mind-paralyzing fear washing over me. I think that I forced my way through it and sent the problem. And then another, and another.
Then I got on the new overhanging section of the bouldering cave and did the unthinkable: I forced myself to fall. To be fair, there are large gymnastic mats underneath this section, but forcing myself to take a WWE-like fall from up there finally started to straighten out my head.
I work there now, teaching lessons, climbing, et al. And I am looking forward to early spring when I can get back up to the Gunks, pull some real rock, and get through that 2nd pitch on high E.
Thanks to all who rated the posts, who gave all the good feedback. Thanks to the trollers who kept the thread alive for as long as it was.
And now, its time to lay this thing to rest, as it settles back down to the bottom of the posting river, to be forgotten and lost...
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