Yeh, I checked this discussion:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=794496#794496

out this morning, FUN!

I'm in Western Mass, the drive to Hunter's is a little far. I think I may go to Rumney or Lincoln Woods though.... sniff

i dunno, i thought i saw some pic's where it didn't exist....

what's up mac? enjoying the west?

is there a new no trespassing sign.... i remember about 5 or so years ago a line of them were posted just to the left of the trail... there was even one right beside verbing... we knew that one was false, so it came down...

funney story... i was going to hunters one moring and pulled into the culdusac and saw 2 cars upside down... then my friend dan came down the trail... he and two other people were camped up by the fire pit... they said they heard a noise...but didn't think to much of it. You should have seen the look on the DEC rangers face when he saw two cars turned over... luckily, they had a good idea of who did it, and he was on his way to jail for another offence... but the ranger did mention there was a plan to gate off the culdusac if there were still kids causing problems there..
moral of the story.... since there are alot of people using the land next to the private property, we've got a huge foothold on the access.... the key is to coordinate and cohabitate with the other user groups.... hikers... botnists.. hunters... and the like...

gotta give some props to the guy who posted the directions for mentioning the endangered species.... good lookin out.....

long story short.... i live in moab, UT... i can walk two minuites and hit a tower or a field of boulders.... so i really have no horse in this race... but there is obviously the climber side of the story and (who ever is posting the land's) side of the story.... and untill they jive....

One last thought, you shouldn't expect the people at app house to take a side on such a heated and contentious debate... they're good people and should be left out of it... although the jeff bouldered there a long time ago....

Peace out PA....

So what I gather from this thread.

The original developers wanted only a select few to know about this area.

From there, it was intended to be a hierarchy which dictates who is allowed to know that it exists.

All landowners adjacent to a property have dictatorial rights as to it's use.

There has been a lot of crap spewed about respecting the property owner's rights, but also by the same people, who want to keep the areas secret so that the land-owners don't become aware that they are trespassing! What a bunch of hypocrites! As a landowner, I understand the frustrations of tresspassers, but I don't presume to dictate what adjacent landowners allow their lands to be used for and most certainly not public lands (yes I do have land adjacent to public lands) Also, from what I understand, the trail leading into the area is on public land, why are people worried about the 'uneducated' accidentally (I find that when people 'wander' onto my property, it's usually not by accident, as they generally have a gun, an orange vest, and a case of beer) wandering onto private land, while heading into the area. If there is not access to the lands via public property, there is STILL the right of ingress and egress, (Which I am also obligated to allow on some parts of my property) which I am certain state lands would have already secured.

I don't know anything about Hunter's but it sounds like an area that (for now anyway) is frequented mostly by selfish pricks who only care about keeping their secret area secret so they don't have to share it with other people. I'm sure THAT is exactly how the original developers envisioned it 50 years ago.

To dharmatreez i say this: "Rock on brother, help keep private lands private, and keep/make public lands public!

I don't know, as far as the property line goes, I always figured the trees with white gamelands paint on them directly down the hill from Verbing showed the end of the public area???


Jason what's new? I'm done with school and taking a job in Reading in a month doing orthopedics. Hopefully get some experience and then make my move out west at some point. Hope all is well, later

One of my biggest confusions of rock climbing are the names of the crags. How do you name the crags and how am I supposed to figure out which ones are which?

One of my biggest confusions of rock climbing are the names of the crags. How do you name the crags and how am I supposed to figure out which ones are which?

Guidebooks?

You said your taking a job in ortho in Reading. Just a long shot but is it with Boas Surgical by any chance?

Where's the Hunter's guidebook?

I don't know if there are any. That post was supposed to say "Are there any Guidbooks?"

Thats It! There is no information for Hunters anywhere! I will set out to create a guide book with the help of some friends. I will publish it and we can finish this debate once and for all! Give me a few months and I should have a rough draft for everyone.

"I have been to Hunter's and it was because of a friend (he has listed all of the things you have in your post) telling me why he loves to climb there. Being invited by him was a privledge and it is a beautiful place. But, there is no way I would go there without him."

My friend taught me to masturbate, but I only do it with him, doing it with someone else seems dirty.

"He talked up the land and the solitude and how pristene it is."

So was my penis before I had my first sexual experience. Now I have crabs.

"Though I am definitely a champion of helping new comers out and giving directions and beta, judgment should be used with respect to land-owner sensitive areas. "

Isn't it PUBLIC land!

"Having moved from SC to Western Mass, I've had to jump through the hurdles and leaps to discover just a few untouched bolts."

Congratulations, want a medal?

" It's a frustrating process, but protection of our resources should be of first concern. "

Forget about the resources. What makes you think that you, of all creatures, could upset mother nature; she would smite you in a second.

"High-traffic on private property (even with land-owner approval) can lead to many problems down the road with frustrated land-owners and locals, tired of the speeding climbers and road-side parking ruts."

High traffic my ass, if god didn't want us to drive to the spot why did he put a road there? And whats with the speeding climbers? Your so jacked up on Jolt cola that you can't drive slow? Oh yeah, road side ruts are only a problem when god doesn't make us a parking lot.

"When I'm talking resources, I'm not talking just of the "right to climb", which is not a right, but a PRIVILEGE."

I have a god given right to climb. You can punish me for climbing in an area where I do not belong, but you can not kill my will to climb those spots. Just because we make rules to tell people how to live, does not mean that people will agree to the rules, or even live by them.

"I remember some of the best things about Hunter's being the lack of a crowd and the occasional deer roaming through the rocks. I usually disliked the rampant shouting after finishing a project, and the subsequent land owner arrival and fierce argument."

Never in my life have I seen a land owner. I have seen other people, however everyone was there for the same thing; A good time. I'd hate to think that no-one could get along because of their personal beliefs.

"There is a place for the party crag (Rose Ledges) and the hidden crags with still some good routes (trad and sport, imagine that bolts in Western Mass). I hate showing up and seeing 30 people with 5 top-ropes all over the one route I wanted to lead that day."

Deal with it, there are people everywhere and if you can't get along or hang out with a stranger, then thats your problem. Stop complaining about other people and enjoy the company. After all, isn't that why we live in citys and towns?

"So in short, all I ask is use some prudence when announcing the sensitive climbing areas to the world."

Prudence:
adjective
acting with or showing care and thought for the future

Sensitive:
adjective
quick to detect or respond to slight changes, signals, or influences

So what you want everyone to do is show care and thought for the future of quick to detect, or respond to, slight changes in climbing areas when announcing them. What are you? Are you god? are you sure this is what he would want us to do? Love thy neighbor, but don't tell him about the sweet spot on the hill cause he might trash it. What you should be saying is; Pick up after your climbing buddies and show them how to have a good time without leaving a trace. It's not that they don't care or don't want to, its that no-one has taken the time to sit down and tell them.

So next time, Instead of suppressing other climbers, teach them, and the world will be "your" perfect place.

thespider

This is either a joke, or things are going to get hell ugly.

That said, I dont give a s--- either way. Im just a spectator here.

Things where? At hunters? Or on this site? I think it's a great idea to make a guidebook if there isn't one already. We've already established that it's public land, so I don't see where the problem lies. If nobody wrote guidebooks, because were afraid the areas would see more climbers, they'd be right about that. And they'd also be assholes.

This is either a joke, or things are going to get hell ugly.

That said, I dont give a s--- either way. Im just a spectator here.

orthopedic associates is a great outfit. they are building a new several million dollar facility in Lancaster. I was not aware of their presence in Reading. I'm with an orthopedic group not far from there.

What is your degree in?

At least you will have a lot of great climbing near by.

~Rob

You appear to be an idiot with poor social skills and few manners. While you're at it, you may want to look up the meaning of free climbing as distinct to aid climbing, free soloing, and rope soloing. Then make the appropriate adjustments to your profile.