This is an idea I have been bouncing around in my head for a while and I was curious about getting some female climber feedback about it.

If you are dating a climber, does it even factor in how hard he climbs?
Would you prefer that he be a stronger climber or equivalent climber to yourself?
Or is it completely irrelevant in the face of the other reasons you are dating him?
So you meet a really nice climber dude who you are romantically attracted to. You guys go climbing and he flails on something you cruise easily. Does this change the way you think of him as a potential relationship candidate? Or does it only change the way you think of him as a climber? Does climbing ability in anyway translate into attractiveness?
Personal experiences?

If you are dating a climber, does it even factor in how hard he climbs?

Here's my lurking guy answer.

I have in the past been looked over because I climbed too well. The girl has found it intimidating to date me because I am somewhat hard to keep up with on my good days. In my defense, I keep the engine at idle speeds most of the time, so it's not the problem the she-folk think it would be.

I encountered the same thing among cyclists, runners, etc that I've dated.

Numerically put. 5.0 to 5.10 climbing women don't want to date a 5.12 climber. 5.12 climbing women can and do date 5.13 (trad) and 5.14 climbing men. All women who climb 5.11 have a boyfriend.

It is my strong belief that the most attractive ability for a single guy is 11c sport, 10b trad, 12a gym, and V5. Above or below this number and he's "nice but just not boyfriend material"

_snip_ All women who climb 5.11 have a boyfriend.

no i don't.

. All women who climb 5.11 have a boyfriend.

Ok then, so you don't have a boyfriend. Lighten up, it was a humorous reply. I've been on rc.com for years, look through my body of work, you'll see I'm always joking. Jeez.

Can you really argue about the rest of the statement minus the 5.11 climber portion though?

It is my strong belief that the most attractive ability for a single guy is 11c sport, 10b trad, 12a gym, and V5. Above or below this number and he's "nice but just not boyfriend material"

damn, this thread is bringing out all the male lurkers in the ladies' room, I guess.

Angry, i could not agree more with the above statement.

And why do so many women hate crack climbing?

cute, single, and want to take me crack climbing? i'll be road tripping as of january.

PS my attractive grades are above angry's angry list

cute, single, and want to take me crack climbing? i'll be road tripping as of january.

PS my attractive grades are above angry's angry list

Single male who onsights 5.12 trad, owns 60 cams, and enjoys long bushwalks in the wilderness seeks single woman who doesn't hate crack climbing. Has been known to liberally use terms like take, homo, and glitter balls.

A true dislike of sport climbing is a plus.


Shit, that could be for me or camhead...I call front door!!!

you know, there might be ladies who like both crack climbing and sport climbing, eh?

you know, there might be ladies who like both crack climbing and sport climbing, eh?

just a little tongue in cheek humor.

her reply seemed so emphatic that it sent me off on a non-assumption kick. angry may have gotten my brand of humor there. Besides, women/girls who climb hard and are single are single by choice. There's no other way to explain it rationally really.

no i don't.

Well you damn well should.

well, hell, why dont we just rectify that just for you??


(or were you wanting to be listed for candidacy with camhead and angry for consideration by the multiple amazing females already represented in this thread?)

damn, this thread is bringing out all the male lurkers in the ladies' room, I guess.

Angry, i could not agree more with the above statement.

And why do so many women hate crack climbing?

PS my attractive grades are above angry's angry list

hey shorty (highjack here), just picked myself up a pair of head monster 75's at an outrageous price 250 bucks. yeehah. let it snow. over 75 cm. at the hill!!!

At the risk of getting one of those cockpunches that's going around, I'm going to state what I think is an obvious fact: There's still a little sexism left in most of us.

Many folks want a relationship that's equal in terms of respect, love, compassion, and doing the dishes, but the gal still gets warm fuzzies every once in a while by feeling like she's got a big strapping man, and the guy still gets a secret shot of joy from being able to pick up his gal and carry her easily to their love-nest.

I think this carries over a little bit into climbing. Many guys will feel great about climbing with a stronger woman, but when they start dating, he might feel just a little awkward about not being "the man", and she might feel a little nervous about "showing him up".

That's one piece of it.

Here's another piece: Simple statistics. Because there are perhaps twice as many male climbers as female, if we assume that women and men are inherently equal in ability, on average, the best male climbers will be slightly better than the best female climbers in a given population. This demographic reality will naturally lead to a cultural norm of behaviour. Of course individuals are much more complicated than simple social pairings based on, say, strongest male and strongest female must bond, but that will certainly be one among many elements.

Finally, I think most people like to have a partner who's stronger than them, at least at times. So being strong is a plus.

Combine the subtle sexism, the demographic realities, and the social benefit of being a strong climber, and I think you wind up with a number of self-reinforcing elements that push stronger men to partner with slightly less strong women.

Now pardon me while I go put on my steel cup.

GO

You asked for the cockpunch, so here it goes.

You mean sexism or insecurity or whatever you call it is left in you, cracklover. I climb better than my husband. I make more money than my husband. I work longer hours than my husband. Ok. He does beat me most of the time at racketball, but the point is, unless a guy has a need to compensate, I find it hard to believe that in this day and age, stronger climber guy/weaker climber girl concept is really true.

Not-so-strong climber girl seeks Strong climber boy!
Must have strong calloused hands, own a full rack and be willing to pull my ass through a difficult crux, if necessary. Your patience will be rewarded.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

wow, this thread is getting even more shameless.

I regret to say that xgretax is no longer coming down to my house for thanksgiving, so no cockpunches for me!

And I'm not sure, snoangel... I'm still not how I feel about dating girls that are significantly less strong, either. All I know is that, after I broke up with a "date climbing partner" of a few years, my own climbing really improved. Dating strong climber girls is WAY cooler.


I guess it all comes down to what you mean by "rewarded."

(camhead ducks cockpunch)

Um, yep (IMHO), yep, yep (plus spare set of ice tools), yep (if necessary). feeling frisky again, huh?

I prefer to climb with *people* who are better climbers than I; it pushes me to keep up and to get on stuff that I might not otherwise do, and I think I improve faster as a result. I don't care if they're male or female or hot or a potential romantic prospect or someone I would never consider dating in this lifetime---I like to climb with stronger partners. I don't see it as a dating issue but as a climbing issue.

so i was thinking about some stuff that went down this summer, and i have a question to toss out...


have you ever seriously projected something with your significant other? like, this is JUST within both of your reach to redpoint..... maybe. and its HARD.


any drama ensue? i was projecting a route this summer with my (now ex) boyfriend, who is somewhat stronger than me sport climbing but is a lot taller. (6'0 to my 5'3) and of course the crux is a reach for me and a flexibility challenge for him. we'll just say some drama ensued. it doesnt help that this route is one that stays perfectly dry in the rain, and... you guessed it.... it was raining.

by "significant other" i mean boyfriend or girlfriend. so the question was have you ever projected something that was hard for both of you with your romantic partner. were you trying to be witty? or were we using diff definition of sig other?

- two 5.11 climbers who hate each other's guts

so i was thinking about some stuff that went down this summer, and i have a question to toss out...


have you ever seriously projected something with your significant other? like, this is JUST within both of your reach to redpoint..... maybe. and its HARD.


any drama ensue? i was projecting a route this summer with my (now ex) boyfriend, who is somewhat stronger than me sport climbing but is a lot taller. (6'0 to my 5'3) and of course the crux is a reach for me and a flexibility challenge for him. we'll just say some drama ensued. it doesnt help that this route is one that stays perfectly dry in the rain, and... you guessed it.... it was raining.

cracklover...?????

what??

Gimme a shout if you are coming out Moab-way, Clausti.

Clausti, definitely climb with this guy! I personally taught him the art of soft catches at the Red. He's safe, but he's goofy. He might serenade you too with a little guitar playing. LOL.

Oh, and you both are missing some excellent days at the Red ... 60 degrees and sunny for a 1.5 weeks. I'm skipping work tomorrow.

LRC for a comp? No, after a bad accident last year, I've avoided bouldering. I might make a trip to Rocktown soon if I have a competent spotter.

Good luck with classes ... glad I'm not there anymore.

oh i plan on it. and if the boy knows how to not let a little lady hit the end of the lead line like a load of lead, all the better. guitars are a plus.

and, you know, the guy isn't a total asshat by nature, it's all good.

1. I try and model my footwork after women because they do it better. Plain and simple.

what's that you said? you want to come party with me at rocktown at new years and then throw down?

Very grounded and very well stated!

Geeeze and all I want is a guy who can lead .13 OWs is that so much to ask?!

I probably need to start stalking the US Ski Team.

Brad,
Kim and I shared a lift at Beaver Creek this past weekend with one of the Ski Team gals. She was pretty cute... Just sayin, as long as their in town...

Oh, and if any women consistently onsight at or above any of the following: 5.10+ trad, 5.12- sport, or V3+ bouldering, you climb harder than me.

Women deserve equal pay for equal work. Men can change diapers. But I don't think any amount of enlightenment will ever trump our biology. We want our men strong and agile.

But you're climbing 5.12s. You're all set.

I think it's broader than just "strong and agile." I think women want to feel inferior to "their men."

Maybe we don't want to feel that our men are inferior to us.

We're saying the same thing.

Still, it's just climbing. I mean, come on, how important can it be that your boyfriend can outclimb you?

Jay

you know jay, it just so happen that every boy whose ever aske me out has outclimbed me, and every boy i've ever asked out that I outclimbed has turned me down. coincidence?

[also known as "it aint just the girls who are sexist"]

clausti, maybe you should judge yourself first before judging others...

Plus, while I might become a better climber by being on harder routes, I won't become a better lead climber.

I disagree... obviously... yeah, I might be able to pull the moves more easily, but being on the sharp end is hugely mental, and you don't develop the mental stamina to commit on lead when you're seconding all the time.

I think it does come down, a bit, to women wanting to feel like the have big strong men to take care of them. It's the same reason most women won't date guys shorter than them. I think women inherently want to feel protected, and not getting that feeling, for a lot of us, creates strain on a relationship. Hell, as much as I don't want to be a girly girl, I'd definitely cook dinner and do the dishes for someone who'd ropegun 5.11 cracks for me.

Whoa, seriously?!

I get so much pleasure and happiness from being independent and strong, from leading my way up a relatively easy 5.10 instead of having some guy drag my ass up a 5.11, from taking care of myself and not needing someone else to support me.

Is this what it still comes down to? There are more women than men in medical school now, more female governors in the U.S. than ever before, an increasing number of female CEOs in the corporate world, and it's all about finding a big strong man to take care of us?

I don't get it (please don't mistake what I'm saying for nastiness... I just really am taken aback). For me, the bigger strain in a relationship is when a guy feels the need to play out the stereotypical "guy as provider" role and doesn't allow me to be an equal.

Whoa, seriously?!

I get so much pleasure and happiness from being independent and strong, from leading my way up a relatively easy 5.10 instead of having some guy drag my ass up a 5.11, from taking care of myself and not needing someone else to support me.

Is this what it still comes down to? There are more women than men in medical school now, more female governors in the U.S. than ever before, an increasing number of female CEOs in the corporate world, and it's all about finding a big strong man to take care of us?

I don't get it (please don't mistake what I'm saying for nastiness... I just really am taken aback). For me, the bigger strain in a relationship is when a guy feels the need to play out the stereotypical "guy as provider" role and doesn't allow me to be an equal.

Whoa, seriously?!

I get so much pleasure and happiness from being independent and strong, from leading my way up a relatively easy 5.10 instead of having some guy drag my ass up a 5.11, from taking care of myself and not needing someone else to support me.