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caughtinside
May 14, 2009, 12:01 AM
Post #151 of 174
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Well, I'll cry for dingus a bit.
He throws in a funny story for the amusement of fellow climbers.
Then because he doesn't care for the non climbing corporate entity to profit from it, he removes it.
Then a bunch of people bitch and call him names.
Why are you entitled to dingus's story? What is your need to have it here, preserved for all time? Why can't you just shrug your shoulders and let him do what he wants?
Dingus shouldn't post his good stuff here any more, too many of you guys are just dicks. Probably not even climbers, so I guess the first premise, 'sharing with peers' wasn't really correct after all.
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charley
May 14, 2009, 12:14 AM
Post #152 of 174
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I love dingus' stories. If he asks that people not quote them because he wishes to delete them, I think we should honor that request. Screw what's legal. If a friend asks you not to tell something he has told you, shouldn't you not tell anyone.
Dingus is an online acquantance (sp) who I have never met but I will respect his request.
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scrapedape
May 14, 2009, 12:59 AM
Post #153 of 174
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pfwein wrote: I don't usually waste my time with Internet tough guys
Yet here you go.
And it wasn't even me that started talking about administering smackdowns.
In other words,
pfwein wrote: pot, meet kettle.
Gotta go. Your mom's calling.
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dynosore
May 14, 2009, 1:06 AM
Post #154 of 174
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Figured I best edit this before someone steals my infinite wisdom 
(This post was edited by dynosore on May 14, 2009, 2:21 AM)
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pfwein
May 14, 2009, 3:25 AM
Post #155 of 174
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scraped, gaped, whatever . . .
Do you need to look up the definition of usually?
Anyway, you got smacked down pretty good by nika, haha.
Nice how you didn't even deny it--maybe you're not quite as dumb as you seem.
You may now return to your fantasy world.
[Oh--and the only person who seems to know anything about copyright law (re: could fart man or rc.com sue an infringer) is the person who said everyone else was wrong. Sorry, don't mean to be harsh and maybe I overlooked something else that was right--it's just that there was so much misinformation that it's not easy to start correcting it. As a super brief primer, consider the following points: copyrights in a work are initially owned by an author (unless it is a work for hire, which this is not; and, the author can assign his copyrights, but the assignment must be in writing. I suppose it's possible that the TOS could be relevant--I haven't bothered to look at them, if anyone has any they are in any way relevant, please post up)
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moose_droppings
May 14, 2009, 3:56 AM
Post #156 of 174
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Dingus,
If I need to quote you for the purposes of keeping a discussion between us in context, I'm gonna do that.
If you don't want me quoting your stories, I won't do that.
Seems simple enough.
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macblaze
May 14, 2009, 4:03 AM
Post #157 of 174
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dingus wrote: That's not the point. Why should I have to ASK to delete my own material on a user content site? Its MY material.
While I generally tend to think that posting on the internet is akin to asking someone to keep a secret: if you tell even one person it will never be a secret again, lets look at this from a different angle.
This discussion is about not disputing ownership per se, but rather the right to control the material. When one posts a story/picture/movie etc. online one is effectively publishing it.
Never before has the ability to control or edit the content of a published work been possible. Once Steinbeck sent away his MS it was out of his control. Hundreds of thousands of copies exist, are being quoted, misquoted and outright stolen. With the act of publication the artist effectively relinquishes the right to control the material: they own it, they deserve to be compensated for it, but they no longer control it.
My personal position is that these models do and will continue to apply to this new electronic age. Once something is published in any form it becomes a possession of the acquirer and is beyond recall. User content, professional content, whatever... BBS's forums, Facebook are all just online self-publishing vehicles.
How society and the law will deal with it over the long run is yet to be seen, but Dingus I think if you want to retain control of it, the only option is to keep it unpublished, and I would have been very sad if that's the decision Steinbeck had made...
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Toast_in_the_Machine
May 14, 2009, 11:22 AM
Post #158 of 174
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First, thanks to [dingus] for his story, I read it, enjoyed it, and I’m fine with his removal. Also thanks to [angry] for re-naming the post. After [dingus]’s story I keep seeing the CEBS post hitting the top 10 and didn’t bother reading it as I do have a limit on fart jokes. Without the re-name I wouldn’t have revisited the thread.
I do think there is an interesting question in the mix between content, ownership, and communal dialogue that RC.com is but one of a thousand sights where groups are in a non-legal way working through the issues. As someone pointed out, we are struggling with the gap between legal and moral; individual vs. community; and private ownership or public site. (And yes the lack of parallelism in that sentence was on purpose.)
As the husband of an author who is struggling to “get back in the game” after spending 8 years in another occupation (primary care-giver), we came to the conclusion that the most practical approach is to start your own blog. By owning the blog site you maintain full control of the content and eliminate the variables of TOS. The activity of the site is up to you and, if you want to put one fart story up once a year, so be it. In forums, facebook, and elsewhere, linking to a specific article is more than OK, it is expected. If you move a blog from public to private, so be it. People expect links not to be forever. Mostly people won’t part re-publish an entire blog in a post. If they do, asking for removal would likely result in the request being granted.
The blog site gives control to the author yet allows for participation in public conversations.
My wife’s blog is at http://annrbsummers.com.
She is no Arthur Kade, but who is?
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theguy
May 14, 2009, 1:04 PM
Post #159 of 174
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pfwein wrote: I suppose it's possible that the TOS could be relevant
You're absolutely right. However actually reading the TOS would short-circuit the wonderful hypothetical discussion folks are having (actually, being RC.com, it probably wouldn't...).
"By publishing or submitting any content including, articles, stories, postings and photographs to any part of Rockclimbing.com you give permission that such content may be used at the sole discretion of Rockclimbing.com anywhere else on the site, for any purpose, in its original or edited form, at any time in the future".
Rockclimbing.com provides facilities to its users to quote content and then replicates that content elsewhere on the site (e.g. later in a thread).
By posting on this site, Dingus has given permission for this activity.
Users may choose (as per the respect argument), to honor Dingus's request, but that's as far as it goes.
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olderic
May 14, 2009, 1:53 PM
Post #160 of 174
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This is America - well actually its rc.com but for all intents and purposes.. and everyone knows that rules and legal mumbo jumbo are only suggestions and primarily meant for others. Besides we are not literate enough to understand them anyway and taking the time to try to would mean not focusing the spot light on ourselves for awhile - me, me me.
And DMT is certainly as Merican as apple pie.
And if Nika would put this much effort into her homework she would have graduated from HLS by now. Oopsie did I just name drop? My bad. well it's not like I am the first one here to brag about their daughters.
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cracklover
May 14, 2009, 4:58 PM
Post #161 of 174
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An observation:
Each climbing forum has a different feel. One aspect of this is the respect given to those who create. Here on rc.com, unfortunately, that respect is at the low end of the spectrum.
Here on rc.com, sadly, we have a culture of users. And by "user", I mean one who gets off on using stuff provided by others. Very few here know what goes into doing FAs. Very few take the time to really think and craft their posts. Very few take the time and mental energy to create trip reports that elucidate and entertain. Very few submit the fantastic photos that help keep us inspired.
In fact, many here are positively disdainful of anyone who might value the craft it takes to even build the skills to do these things.
Of course, the flip side of this is that when an RG or a Dingus does share their very developed craft, it stands out all the more, and they typically get lots of "wow, you said it!" or stars, or trophies, or whatever. Big fish, little pond.
So, Dingus, it's up to you. If it's worth the adulation of this artless band of middle-schoolers, please keep sharing here. RC.COM would be much the poorer without you.
If not, I'll see you over on the taco.
GO
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Craggmire
May 15, 2009, 6:28 AM
Post #163 of 174
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Registered: Feb 9, 2009
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WHAT IS GOING ON?
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olderic
May 15, 2009, 1:35 PM
Post #164 of 174
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cracklover wrote: If not, I'll see you over on the taco. GO
Better check the TOS there first...
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cracklover
May 15, 2009, 5:25 PM
Post #165 of 174
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olderic wrote: cracklover wrote: If not, I'll see you over on the taco. GO Better check the TOS there first...
Well, it's kind of a funny thing, isn't it? On the Taco, you can't even edit/delete your posts after, um, I dunno how long, but there is an expiration date.
But that's not really the entire issue, is it? The other part of the point is that over there, Dingus is sharing with folks he *knows* are part of his tribe. People who "get it". People who appreciate what it takes to make something new. And I think that makes all the difference.
GO
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kriso9tails
May 15, 2009, 6:00 PM
Post #166 of 174
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cracklover wrote: olderic wrote: cracklover wrote: If not, I'll see you over on the taco. GO Better check the TOS there first... Well, it's kind of a funny thing, isn't it? On the Taco, you can't even edit/delete your posts after, um, I dunno how long, but there is an expiration date. But that's not really the entire issue, is it? The other part of the point is that over there, Dingus is sharing with folks he *knows* are part of his tribe. People who "get it". People who appreciate what it takes to make something new. And I think that makes all the difference. GO
What it takes to make something new? A bit of a generalization and paid work not (necessarily) included, but you create because you want to create. The amount of effort you put into it is defined by what you want the work to be. If you choose to share it because you want to share it then that's cool, but nobody out there has any obligation to respond in any given way just because you were following a fancy.
There is no 'it' to get. Why someone chooses to create, how good it is, how much effort it took, what they expect to yield from it etc. ... it's different for everyone.
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altelis
May 15, 2009, 6:40 PM
Post #167 of 174
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bill413 wrote: Your desire for fecal matter seems to have covered your meaning.
New sig, spank you very much!
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bill413
May 15, 2009, 7:54 PM
Post #168 of 174
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altelis wrote: bill413 wrote: Your desire for fecal matter seems to have covered your meaning. New sig, spank you very much! 
Thnx.
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dingus
May 16, 2009, 3:01 PM
Post #169 of 174
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cracklover wrote: olderic wrote: cracklover wrote: If not, I'll see you over on the taco. GO Better check the TOS there first... Well, it's kind of a funny thing, isn't it? On the Taco, you can't even edit/delete your posts after, um, I dunno how long, but there is an expiration date. But that's not really the entire issue, is it? The other part of the point is that over there, Dingus is sharing with folks he *knows* are part of his tribe. People who "get it". People who appreciate what it takes to make something new. And I think that makes all the difference. GO
You nailed it dead on. Plus the owner has in the past shown that he will
delete user material at user request, up to and including all posts and user id.
he listens to and cedes to forum user wishes, pretty cool, that.
And it is a west coast CA vibe no quetion, a feeling of home so to speak.
You nailed it dead on actually. A sense of trust.
Cheers
DMT
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rockandlice
May 16, 2009, 3:34 PM
Post #170 of 174
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Is it the interweb equivalent to Cheers?
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dingus
May 16, 2009, 4:20 PM
Post #171 of 174
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More like Seinfeld... its a forum about nothing.
DMT
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rockandlice
May 16, 2009, 7:06 PM
Post #172 of 174
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dingus wrote: More like Seinfeld... its a forum about nothing. DMT
LOL! 
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j_ung
May 18, 2009, 8:58 PM
Post #173 of 174
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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I'm a professional writer. My prose is my livelihood and in many cases has actual monetary value beyond the fractions of cents it may have to this website. And yet, I will not go back through the many stories I've shared with this community and delete them. Not one! I have given them freely, not to a corporate entity, but to fellow human beings to laugh at, learn from or, fuck it, print out and their wipe asses with.
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mushroom
May 24, 2009, 8:12 PM
Post #174 of 174
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