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enigma
Mar 7, 2011, 6:57 AM
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Before the Ice Age humans didn't eat meat, and we ate mostly a vegetarian diet, afterwards we ate meat, when vegetation wasn't readily available. Climbers who generally are dirtbagging often don't include perishable foods in their diet as well. Personally I have known quite a few vegan climbers who are excellent. In addition monkeys and apes are excellent climbers and exist on vegetarian diet unless there is survival need for them to eat meat. So Climbers who eat meat vs vegetarian who has more endurance and climbs better? Or it doesn't matter?
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healyje
Mar 7, 2011, 9:09 AM
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enigma wrote: Before the Ice Age humans didn't eat meat, and we ate mostly a vegetarian diet, afterwards we ate meat, when vegetation wasn't readily available. Humans are garbage disposal omnivores by design and capable of ingesting damn near anything they came across. The idea humans could have maintained healthy reproduction rates on pure vegetarian diets in the wild is pretty outlandish - they didn't have Whole Foods down the street. Scientists today typically hold exactly the opposite view... From http://en.wikipedia.org/...sm_and_controversies:
Wikipedia wrote: The mainstream view among anthropologists is that the increases in human brain-size occurred well before the advent of cooking ( common around 250,000 years ago), due to a shift away from the consumption of nuts and berries to the consumption of meat. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human:
Wikipedia wrote: Human nutrition Humans are omnivorous, capable of consuming plant, animal, and inorganic material.[84][85] Varying with available food sources in regions of habitation, and also varying with cultural and religious norms, human groups have adopted a range of diets, from purely vegetarian to primarily carnivorous. In some cases, dietary restrictions in humans can lead to deficiency diseases; however, stable human groups have adapted to many dietary patterns through both genetic specialization and cultural conventions to use nutritionally balanced food sources.[86] The human diet is prominently reflected in human culture, and has led to the development of food science. Until the development of agriculture approximately 10,000 years ago, Homo sapiens employed a hunter-gatherer method as their sole means of food collection. This involved combining stationary food sources (such as fruits, grains, tubers, and mushrooms, insect larvae and aquatic molluscs) with wild game, which must be hunted and killed in order to be consumed.[87] It has been proposed that members of H. sapiens have used fire to prepare and cook food since the time of their divergence from Homo rhodesiensis (which itself had previously speciated from Homo erectus).[88] Around ten thousand years ago, humans developed agriculture,[89] which substantially altered their diet. This change in diet may also have altered human biology; with the spread of dairy farming providing a new and rich source of food, leading to the evolution of the ability to digest lactose in some adults.[90][91] Agriculture led to increased populations, the development of cities, and because of increased population density, the wider spread of infectious diseases. The types of food consumed, and the way in which they are prepared, has varied widely by time, location, and culture. In general, humans can survive for two to eight weeks without food, depending on stored body fat. Survival without water is usually limited to three or four days. About 36 million humans starve to death every year, due to lack of edible materials in their habitats.[92] Childhood malnutrition is also common and contributes to the global burden of disease.[93] However global food distribution is not even, and obesity among some human populations has increased rapidly, leading to health complications and increased mortality in some developed, and a few developing countries. Worldwide over one billion people are obese,[94] while in the United States 35% of people are obese, leading to this being described as an "obesity epidemic".[95] Obesity is caused by consuming more calories than are expended, so excessive weight gain is usually caused by a combination of an energy-dense high fat diet and insufficient exercise.[94]
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philbox
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Mar 7, 2011, 9:34 AM
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If God had of meant us to be vegetarians, he wouldn't have made cows out of meat. Meatatarians unite.
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wonderwoman
Mar 7, 2011, 1:34 PM
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I've been nearly vegan for over a month now. I say 'nearly' because I am allowing myself to have the eggs from our local farm share. I am doing my best to not participate in industrial agriculture. It's not sustainable & it makes us sick. Here are changes that I've noticed so far: I need to drink more water. I have more energy. I feel more awake in general. I am happier. I can't drink as much beer. My stomach aches are gone. That being said, it wasn't a hard jump for me because the only animal based food that I had been eating before had been dairy.
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lena_chita
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Mar 7, 2011, 1:39 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: I've been nearly vegan for over a month now. I say 'nearly' because I am allowing myself to have the eggs from our local farm share. I am doing my best to not participate in industrial agriculture. It's not sustainable & it makes us sick. Here are changes that I've noticed so far: I need to drink more water. I have more energy. I feel more awake in general. I am happier. I can't drink as much beer. My stomach aches are gone. That being said, it wasn't a hard jump for me because the only animal based food that I had been eating before had been dairy. Maybe you are just dairy-sensitive then?
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blueeyedclimber
Mar 7, 2011, 1:42 PM
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enigma wrote: So Climbers who eat meat vs vegetarian who has more endurance and climbs better? Or it doesn't matter? Nutrition and diet is only one of the many contributors to athletic performance. I don't think there has been any climbing-specific studies (although I could be wrong), but nutrition and it's impact on performance has been studied for quite some time. As far as your question goes, I eat meat. My wife is vegan. We both climb pretty well. I do climb harder but I am pretty sure it's not because of our diet. Josh
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saint_john
Mar 7, 2011, 1:42 PM
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I'm making a slow transition to veganism. I stopped eating meat almost a year ago. I still eat eggs and cheese but will stop doing that soon. I've never felt better or been leaner. I sleep better at night, have more energy during the day and am performing better at sports.
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wonderwoman
Mar 7, 2011, 2:03 PM
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lena_chita wrote: Maybe you are just dairy-sensitive then? Yeah - lactose intolerance is what I'm thinking, too.
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krusher4
Mar 7, 2011, 3:08 PM
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philbox wrote: If God had of meant us to be vegetarians, he wouldn't have made cows out of meat. Meatatarians unite. and he wouldn't have made them so damn tasty
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jcosgrove
Mar 7, 2011, 3:15 PM
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enigma wrote: So Climbers who eat meat vs vegetarian who has more endurance and climbs better? Or it doesn't matter? Everybody is different. Experiment, keep daily food/exercise/"how you feel" logs, and find what works for you.
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sp115
Mar 7, 2011, 3:20 PM
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krusher4 wrote: philbox wrote: If God had of meant us to be vegetarians, he wouldn't have made cows out of meat. Meatatarians unite. and he wouldn't have made them so damn tasty I generally accept as proof there is no god, the fact that Breyers mint chocolate-chip ice cream doesn't have the same caloric and nutitional content as broccoli.
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marc801
Mar 7, 2011, 3:37 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: I've been nearly vegan for over a month now. I say 'nearly' because I am allowing myself to have the eggs from our local farm share.... Here are changes that I've noticed so far: I need to drink more water. I have more energy. I feel more awake in general. I am happier. I can't drink as much beer. My stomach aches are gone. That being said, it wasn't a hard jump for me because the only animal based food that I had been eating before had been dairy. First, there is no such thing as "nearly vegan", just as there isn't the condition of being nearly pregnant. As long as you're eating eggs, you're an ovo-vegetarian. Being a strict vegan is probably harder than you think. You would also have to avoid: many wines and beers - isinglass (a very pure form of gelatin from sturgeon fish bladders), gelatin (extract from boiled cow's or pig's hooves and sinews), egg whites (or albumin) and casein (mile protein) are all used in the production of wines and beers and are not vegan Actually, since wine and beer must be made with yeast, you wouldn't drink them on that basis alone (if you're psychotic about being vegan). Foods containing gelatin. Vegetables (even organic) that are produced by using animal blood and bone meal as fertilizers. Honey. And if you're really strict... you don't use anything made of fur, leather, or wool soaps containing lanolin (made from wool) or made from animal fat rennet (an enzyme found in the stomach of calves, young goats, and lambs that's used in cheese-making) silk (made by silkworms) shellac (the resinous secretion of the tiny lac insect) cochineal (a red dye derived from the cochineal insect) toothpaste containing calcium extracted from animal bones
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wonderwoman
Mar 7, 2011, 3:46 PM
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Yep - sadly, I quit Guinness awhile back since I learned it's not vegetarian. And I'm not giving up yeast or honey. But since I make most of my own food, I know what I am eating. It's not processed & it's healthier.
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macherry
Mar 7, 2011, 4:02 PM
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marc801 wrote: wonderwoman wrote: I've been nearly vegan for over a month now. I say 'nearly' because I am allowing myself to have the eggs from our local farm share.... Here are changes that I've noticed so far: I need to drink more water. I have more energy. I feel more awake in general. I am happier. I can't drink as much beer. My stomach aches are gone. That being said, it wasn't a hard jump for me because the only animal based food that I had been eating before had been dairy. First, there is no such thing as "nearly vegan", just as there isn't the condition of being nearly pregnant. As long as you're eating eggs, you're an ovo-vegetarian. Being a strict vegan is probably harder than you think. You would also have to avoid: many wines and beers - isinglass (a very pure form of gelatin from sturgeon fish bladders), gelatin (extract from boiled cow's or pig's hooves and sinews), egg whites (or albumin) and casein (mile protein) are all used in the production of wines and beers and are not vegan Actually, since wine and beer must be made with yeast, you wouldn't drink them on that basis alone (if you're psychotic about being vegan). Foods containing gelatin. Vegetables (even organic) that are produced by using animal blood and bone meal as fertilizers. Honey. And if you're really strict... you don't use anything made of fur, leather, or wool soaps containing lanolin (made from wool) or made from animal fat rennet (an enzyme found in the stomach of calves, young goats, and lambs that's used in cheese-making) silk (made by silkworms) shellac (the resinous secretion of the tiny lac insect) cochineal (a red dye derived from the cochineal insect) toothpaste containing calcium extracted from animal bones sounds delightful for the most part, i follow the michael pollan rule, "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." i don't do dairy, other than a small bit of cheese because it makes me feel like crap. i try to shop locally, and never eat fast food, and keep the crap junk food out of the house. i could never give up my murphy's stout
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redonkulus
Mar 7, 2011, 4:06 PM
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I would rather suffocate in a swimming pool of Breyer's Mint Chocolate Chip Ice Cream than any other death.
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saint_john
Mar 7, 2011, 4:15 PM
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It all boils down to personal choice. the bottom line is that is possible to be veagn and be a world class athlete. just ask Mac Danzig or Steph Davis.
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lena_chita
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Mar 7, 2011, 4:24 PM
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macherry wrote: for the most part, i follow the michael pollan rule, "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." i don't do dairy, other than a small bit of cheese because it makes me feel like crap. i try to shop locally, and never eat fast food, and keep the crap junk food out of the house. i could never give up my murphy's stout +1, except for the murphy's stout part. I have experimented with being vegetarian for a while. I have tried giving up all gluten foods and dairy for a month when I was helping a friend transition to gluten-free dairy-free diet. I can honestly say that I have never felt any different, regardless of what I was eating. I have always eat healthily, following seasonal diet, more or less, with big emphasis on fresh and local fruits and veggies, and local organic meat, dairy and eggs. But I have never felt any different when I had given up meat, or dairy, or anything else. I've never had any stomachaches, headaches, bloating, heartburn, flatulence, or any other symptoms that people commonly cite as being affected by their food choices. And without seeing a shred of evidence that the foods I eat are bad for me, I enjoy eating a variety of good foods too much to give up anything in particular.
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happiegrrrl
Mar 7, 2011, 4:54 PM
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I eat sugar, drink coffee, eat meat... And I am pretty sure that giving up on all those won't get me climbing harder. To choose a diet ONLY to climb harder seems to go against any traditionalist views, I think. Gotta be a sport climber thang!
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saint_john
Mar 7, 2011, 5:01 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: I eat sugar, drink coffee, eat meat... And I am pretty sure that giving up on all those won't get me climbing harder. If you lose weight if might.
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marc801
Mar 7, 2011, 5:17 PM
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lena_chita wrote: And without seeing a shred of evidence that the foods I eat are bad for me, I enjoy eating a variety of good foods too much to give up anything in particular. No one food is particularly bad. There are no junk foods - only junk diets.
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lena_chita
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Mar 7, 2011, 5:37 PM
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marc801 wrote: lena_chita wrote: And without seeing a shred of evidence that the foods I eat are bad for me, I enjoy eating a variety of good foods too much to give up anything in particular. No one food is particularly bad. There are no junk foods - only junk diets. Umm... Yesterday I was offered some "BaCos" to put on my salad. BaCos are those fake bacon bits that are actually made out of soy protein, partially hydrogenated oil, and "artificial smoke flavoring". I am pretty sure that THAT food is as junk as they come. If it can even be called food in the first place... And for the record, I refused. That is a typical example of something that is technically vegetarian, but probably just as bad for you, if not worse, than the real bacon would be.
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vegastradguy
Mar 7, 2011, 5:44 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: I eat sugar, drink coffee, eat meat... And I am pretty sure that giving up on all those won't get me climbing harder. To choose a diet ONLY to climb harder seems to go against any traditionalist views, I think. Gotta be a sport climber thang! nah, i turned into a sport climber recently and i'm still a meatasaurus. of course, i'm weak as hell compared to the mutants running around my gym...but they all eat meat too. they actually tell me to eat MORE meat to get stronger. advice i can get behind.
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happiegrrrl
Mar 7, 2011, 5:53 PM
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saint_john wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: I eat sugar, drink coffee, eat meat... And I am pretty sure that giving up on all those won't get me climbing harder. If you lose weight if might. I lost weight in the last 2 years from living in a non-electric cabin without a car, and living on the road. The less sedentary lifestyle was the reason for loss. My diet is pretty similar as it was. It is easier to get up stuff being lighter, that is true. But for me, it wasn't the diet that did it.
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potreroed
Mar 7, 2011, 5:55 PM
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There was a time in my life when I didn't climb for almost 5 years (moved to big city, raising family, starting own business etc) during which I was almost completely vegetarian. When I started climbing again (divorced the wife, sold the business) I began craving, and eating, meat. I know many strong climbers--some eat meat, others are strict vegetarians.
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marc801
Mar 7, 2011, 5:56 PM
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lena_chita wrote: That is a typical example of something that is technically vegetarian, but probably just as bad for you, if not worse, than the real bacon would be. Remember that breaded, deep-fried vegetables slathered with mayo or melted cheese are vegetarian as well. A serving of McDonald's oatmeal (with cream and sugar) contains 290 calories - a McDonald's cheeseburger contains....300. There are numerous other examples.
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