This WHOLE thread. is a big WTF!

RC.com do yourselfs a favor and stick to climbing.

This WHOLE thread. is a big WTF!

RC.com do yourselfs a favor and stick to climbing.

Hmm... mid-sentence periods, pluralized selfs, and the assumption that we actually climb worth a damn makes your post a bigger "WTF" to me than this thread (aside from the OP suggesting that "the ice age" (which one?) commenced our journey toward tasty meats).

My GF and I have bought 1/8 of a cow from a friend's farm. It's not certified organic but it is grass fed and free range. We've also started buying produce from an organic delivery service that focuses on local or nearby seasonal produce.

We still eat a lot of non-organic foods and it certainly doesn't rule our lives but small differences are still differences.

Gibbons rock! Here are a few youtube vids.

Check out this video of a gibbon brachiating:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRJA8pZ8JCA

How 'bout the guns on this guy (and the grace!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acy--k7Qww0

How 'bout that double-dyno starting at 0:19 Holy crap!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLSVt9CWSpc

GO

I've never said that; nor do I believe it. You've only insinuated that I belive it.

Other than nuts and soy based products. what sources of protein are vegan and do not also have carbs?

I agree vegan diets tend to be slimming but they are not slimming per se. it's still possible to be a vegan and be overweight.

While this may be true (that larger companies can afford testing), unfortunately that has not worked so well in the past, whether speaking of meat or veggies. If you have a small-scale operation in which the chances of contamination are orders of magnitude lower, the need for testing is reduced dramatically.

Essentially, if you have shit in the food (veiled nicely as E. Coli or coliform), you need to find it. If your operation is meticulous enough to keep it out of the food, what exactly would one be testing for? If one must irradiate the food to make it safe, one must test that equipment. Why not instead clean machines after each animal or vegetable run?

That is the fundamental problem with industrial farming. When throughput takes a higher priority than food quality and safety, we have issues. Most of this, of course, would go away if public viewing of the processing facilities was permissible and seed companies (or seed company?) were not true monopolies that trade CEOs with the USDA.

None come to mind, but why are you so preoccupied with "carbs" in the first place?

Jay

Yes - I know (but have yet to understand why) you are in favor of industrial agriculture. I do not want to eat animals that have been fed growth hormones & antibiotics, all the while covered in their own shit that overflows into the nearest watershed. I would rather support local organic farmers whose produce lasts a lot longer in my fridge rather than gnaw on some limp, colorless carrot that's been shipped halfway across the world & is covered in pesticide. Fresher produce retains nutrients longer & tastes better.

I guess it's a personal preference, though.

Before the Ice Age humans didn't eat meat, and we ate mostly a vegetarian diet, afterwards we ate meat, when vegetation wasn't readily available.
Climbers who generally are dirtbagging often don't include perishable foods in their diet as well. Personally I have known quite a few vegan climbers who are excellent.
In addition monkeys and apes are excellent climbers and exist on vegetarian diet unless there is survival need for them to eat meat.

So Climbers who eat meat vs vegetarian who has more endurance and climbs better? Or it doesn't matter?

I don't really want to read this whole thread, but my personal thoughts are...
I feel like as a society we've moved past the point where killing animals is necessary in keeping us healthy and alive. If you feel that your happiness is more important than animals' lives then that's fine, but it's not for me.
I really really REALLY don't care about how much healthier someone that eats meat is going to be than me, because for me it's completely a moral issue.
I haven't consumed animal products in 5 years, and I'm doing fine. Is there a chance I'm less healthy than someone who is very aware of their diet? probably. But compared to most fast-food eating americans, I think I'm doing just fine.

I've been nearly vegan for over a month now. I say 'nearly' because I am allowing myself to have the eggs from our local farm share. I am doing my best to not participate in industrial agriculture. It's not sustainable & it makes us sick.

Here are changes that I've noticed so far:

I need to drink more water.
I have more energy.
I feel more awake in general.
I am happier.
I can't drink as much beer.
My stomach aches are gone.

That being said, it wasn't a hard jump for me because the only animal based food that I had been eating before had been dairy.

Not really true. The levels of dioxins, PCB and PAH har been considerably reduced in the last ten years. And the "feed" does not change that in any way.

Adults would need to eat a lot to get any neurological damage.The biggest problems have been in relation to large industrial spills in lakes and harbors.

The risk for larger companies is in a larger impact. I have seen no studies on size and the relationship to cleanliness of butchery. I've seen small back room butchers that were far sloppier with sanitation than some mega producers. The difference is that now we can track the bug back with it's DNA footprint. A small operation doesn't have enough people get sick to be able to trace the bugs back to them. It doesn't mean they have a lower percent get sick, just fewer people.

The same profit margin pressure that tempts big companies exists for smaller ones as well, profits vs safety vs quality isn't exclusive to food or big ag.

Placebo is a hell of a drug.

Wouldn't that be un-placebo? Since nothing has taken it's place? I just cut the dairy out.

Honest question:

Do you see any particular proscriptive diet (that is, vegetarian, vegan, etc) as being more conducive to meeting your recommended fat/carb/protein proportions for weight loss for climbers?

Wouldn't that be un-placebo? Since nothing has taken it's place? I just cut the dairy out.

I don't really want to read this whole thread, but my personal thoughts are...
I feel like as a society we've moved past the point where killing animals is necessary in keeping us healthy and alive. If you feel that your happiness is more important than animals' lives then that's fine, but it's not for me.
I really really REALLY don't care about how much healthier someone that eats meat is going to be than me, because for me it's completely a moral issue.
I haven't consumed animal products in 5 years, and I'm doing fine. Is there a chance I'm less healthy than someone who is very aware of their diet? probably. But compared to most fast-food eating americans, I think I'm doing just fine.