Route setters? Do you mean the people who established the route?

I'm guessing it ain't a question of buying some epoxy; the hold disintegrated when it broke, correct?

Move the bolt to a better spot?

Take what the rock gives you - otherwise it's tantamount to gym climbing.

There is a boulder in flagstaff, CO that has a problem called "Polling the Pebble" The crux move was topping out while cranking on a tiny pebble. The pebble has since broken off, but the route name has remained the same. The rating may be adjusted accordingly, but holds should never be glued back. Gluing is never ethical, it ruins the purity of the line, and may ruin the aesthetics as well.

This is the first sensible advice given. Why would someone consider modifying the rock FIRST, rather than just moving the bolt (which is an artificial thing anyway)?

Glueing is for wankers :!:

Let's face it. If this is a typical SoCal sport route, then the rock has been modified already, through extensive cleaning, just to make it climbable. Gluing the hold back on is negligible modification in light of what probably had to have been done just to get the rock solid enough to climb on. Apparently, the hold disintegrated, so this is now a general discussion about gluing, since it is not an option for the hold in question.

Some SoCal sport routes are so chossy, that if key broken holds aren't replaced, your beta has to change every other time you climb the route. It is nice to be able to repeat the route you spent a month figuring out how to do year after year, rather than constantly having to be working out new sequences as it "evolves." Frankly, I have trouble understanding why pulling off a hold that nature put on the rock is not considered modification, but gluing back on what nature put there in the first place, is. If anything, it seems like it should be the other way around.

-Jay

P.S. What route was it?

If you don't understand the difference between natural erosive processes and hold manufacturing, then I feel sorry for you.

Pick up the prettiest rock you can find in the talus field beneath the route and glue it on right at the clip. :twisted:

For the So Cal climbers who need to know, the area is across from the Predator Wall on the formation past the Dude Ranch. The climb is on the lower formation that has a 5.8/5.9/5.10-/and the previous rated 5.10- all in a row with the 5.8 on an arete.

If you don't know the difference between pulling off a hold during a contrived human exploitation of nature, and a natural erosive process, then I feel sorry for you!

-Jay

Some SoCal sport routes are so chossy, that if key broken holds aren't replaced, your beta has to change every other time you climb the route. It is nice to be able to repeat the route you spent a month figuring out how to do year after year, rather than constantly having to be working out new sequences as it "evolves."

Move the bolt if necessary, but don't glue!

In my mind pulling off holds while climbing is a natural erosive process

. Nobody has stated a single rational reason why gluing a broken hold back into place is wrong. Just the usual mindless repetition of the Gluing is Bad mantra.

It is purely a recreational activity.... Nobody has stated a single rational reason why gluing a broken hold back into place is wrong. Just the usual mindless repetition of the Gluing is Bad mantra.

-Jay

So many RC.com mantras... Use Camalots and Aliens. Retire a biner after you drop it. Wait for someone stronger to climb it. Gluing is Bad. Gluing is Baaad. Gluing is Baaaaaaad!

:P

Its a sport route, at NJC no less. Just drill a new hold--who cares? :lol:

Curt

Its a sport route, at NJC no less...who cares? :lol:

This is all about a hold that broke at NJC? OMFG! Forget everything I wrote.

If for some unforeseen reason a climber sketches at the clip, they will definitely crater.

...
8. A lasting impression. Glue always signifies that the route setter was too weak for momma nature and too childish to let someone else stronger send it in the future.
...

The trad boys are starting to get it. My work here is nearly complete.

-Jay

I'm a trad boy? Now wait a minute, before you go slapping a label on me, don't go thinking I haven't done my fair share of clipping bolts...

My falls still go to 11.

In my humble opinion. The route is a different route now. I would never glue a hold back on simply because the hold was sketchy to begin with and its coming off was inevitable. Take what the rock gives you - otherwise it's tantamount to gym climbing.

The trad boys are starting to get it. My work here is nearly complete.

-Jay

Let's face it. If this is a typical SoCal sport route, then the rock has been modified already, through extensive cleaning, just to make it climbable. Gluing the hold back on is negligible modification in light of what probably had to have been done just to get the rock solid enough to climb on. Apparently, the hold disintegrated, so this is now a general discussion about gluing, since it is not an option for the hold in question.

Some SoCal sport routes are so chossy, that if key broken holds aren't replaced, your beta has to change every other time you climb the route. It is nice to be able to repeat the route you spent a month figuring out how to do year after year, rather than constantly having to be working out new sequences as it "evolves." Frankly, I have trouble understanding why pulling off a hold that nature put on the rock is not considered modification, but gluing back on what nature put there in the first place, is. If anything, it seems like it should be the other way around.

-Jay

P.S. What route was it?

I have not made any routes ever, but wish to in the next year, and I know about 1,000,000 people who have constructed routes, and if I were you, I would get a drill and sculpt a new hold of your own in its place.

With all due respect Jay, or perhaps not... While what you say about most sport routes in So Cal (Williamson and NJC in particular) is true, in this instance, your observations have nothing meaningful to add to the discussion.

It was clearly stated that the route is the same grade (easy, BTW), but the only problem is the bolt is now hard to clip. So move the bolt, DUH!

Why go through all these mental gyrations and contemplate gluing, chipping or other rock modification FIRST when the position of the bolt is the arbitrary and artificial construct in the whole equation.

And sometimes things break and you have to work out new moves. So?

It was clearly stated that the route is the same grade (easy, BTW), but the only problem is the bolt is now hard to clip. So move the bolt, DUH!

Or put the hold back on. What difference does it make?

First of all, gluing back a hold that you pulled off while engaged in the contrived activity of rock climbing is not the same as intentionally chipping a new hold to replace the old one.

Seondly, why is it preferrable to drill a new hole in the rock, move the bolt, fill the old hole with glue, and cover it with chips of rock; compared with just gluing the hold back on. The latter seems actually less destructive to me.

But I will observe, that the attitude that rock is some short of maliable resource obviously originates from both a "indoor" climbing mentality combined with (as you pointed out) the reality of the chossiness of many modern sport crags. However, this attitude left unchecked (e.g.: applied out of the originating context or to any situation) has the potential to completely destroy the challenge of climbing.

1. Because the hold disintigrated (as was stated before)...

... I was under the impression that this "rock" climbing (and I guess I have quaint ideas that modifying the rock should never be the first proposed answer).

First of all, gluing back a hold that you pulled off while engaged in the contrived activity of rock climbing is not the same as intentionally chipping a new hold to replace the old one.

That isn't the choice we were talking about, was it?

Nevertheless, if the idea of moving a bolt "seems actually less destructive" to you, well....obviously our value systems are quite different.

But I will observe, that the attitude that rock is some short of maliable resource obviously originates from both a "indoor" climbing mentality combined with (as you pointed out) the reality of the chossiness of many modern sport crags.

However, this attitude left unchecked (e.g.: applied out of the originating context or to any situation) has the potential to completely destroy the challenge of climbing.

You know, this is tricky. I know of a few holds that have been glued back into place in East Tennesse. I'm not sure how this would fly in SoCal though.

Find someone strong enough to redpoint the route as is.

If it doesn't go, it doesn't go.

Don't bring the rock down to your level.

TIA,

Hardman Knott

Finally, so deep in the replys before someone says the right thing. If a hold breaks off its the natuaral evolution of the climb. No different than a route covered in chalk or the holds all polished. This stuff happens! The route changes. If it becomes harder people will know imediatly and Change the grade or leave it as is. At no time should you ever move a bolt to make the route more "comfortable for you". There are lots of routes out there that have potential for groud fall. It then becomes your personal decision to get on it or not. Right?