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dingus
Aug 25, 2005, 6:48 PM
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In reply to: He'll have nothing to do with the site. -Jay
I was going to ask, 'to his credit Jay. So what character flaws keep me (and you) coming back? Then I thought... 'do I REALLY want to know the answer to that question?' Hah!
Would it even matter?
But in fact, I LIKE the youth of this site, its illiteracy and irreverance and ignorance. All these people who incessantly pipe up with book-read solutions to problems they have never personally faced... Welcome to YOUTH!
There is a youthful vibrancy of the constituency here absent in all the other climbing forums I read. I value that spirit. Now that the moderators are no longer imposing their own personal views of Nirvanna on everyone else, I think this site is pretty good personally.
Cheers
DMT
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cracklover
Aug 25, 2005, 6:53 PM
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In reply to: chased away with a big stick.
In reply to: Full of "seamen."
In reply to: He stuck his piton in the air a few times
The truth is out there...
G:lol:
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j_ung
Aug 25, 2005, 7:13 PM
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Ricardol, with all due respect, I think your mistaking the people that use RC.com for the site, itself. The forums are what the users of the forums make them (within reason -- no porn, spam, etc.). And nothing more. We've never hired or recruited personalities to populate them.
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tim
Aug 25, 2005, 8:07 PM
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In reply to: It isn't that wall climbers are intolerant of noobies. Oh hell, yes it is! The learning curve to wall competence is very steep (get it... STEEP???). These guys have paid their dues the honest way, standing in aiders. They seem to prefer talking to others of similar experience and expertise, saves a helluva lotta time on explanations.
People self-organize into groups by interest and ambition. If you primarily climb walls, or want to, SuperTopo will hold a natural attraction. When Pete was here drawing n00bs to the Better Way, there was a natural attraction, but I feel like it was all a sham. Wanting to bend Werner or Deuce or Fish's ear... well, if you're going up on a wall you might as well ask someone who's likely to know. It's not that there aren't plenty of people on rc.com with walls under their belt -- it's more that there is a higher concentration at ST, and many people use both boards.
In reply to: I mean, really... consider Klaus in the rc.com midst. He just wouldn't last.
Bingo. Bryan Law and I had this discussion 3 years ago.
As for 'software that encourages people to post crap, crap on the fp", etc.:
Ricardo, you and Jay need to have a steel cage match over this one. I'll provide the raw meat and filtering algorithms. Rules are simple: two men enter, one man leaves. Winner gets to be the tin-pot dictator of the front page.
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j_ung
Aug 25, 2005, 9:10 PM
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Wait. What? Jay = me? I only control the order of the features on the FP (and that for less than 48 hours). I don't want any say over what legitimate users post in forums. Get it away from me!
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philbox
Moderator
Aug 25, 2005, 9:32 PM
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I have a suggestion.
We turn this forum into a private usergroup members only forum much the same as the photo critique forum and like what the warriors way forum used to be like. In other words to post you had to become a member by asking the mod in charge to enter your name into a usergroup.
I say we still allow the forum posts to echo to the front page and for all to be able to view the posts. This should cut down on the drive by shooting type of nOOB!!1111 posts.
Would this make the forum too elite or would it turn into someones little feifdom. We`d have to suck it and see to be able to answer that question.
It would certainly elevate the quality of content. Other forums that exist that are highly moderated and or controlled somewhat exhibit a very high signal to noise ratio.
Over to you guys, I`m very happy to be guided by what you want. The only thing that is not negotiable is allowing ptpp to come back, I just am simply not able to do that. Everything else is up to you guys.
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tim
Aug 25, 2005, 10:30 PM
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In reply to: Wait. What? Jay = me? I only control the order of the features on the FP (and that for less than 48 hours). I don't want any say over what legitimate users post in forums. Get it away from me!
no no, I mean jt512. Anson already coded up an Evil Plot To Allow Users More Control of Teh Forums; Jay sez the front page should remain as it is, a torrent of n00bery.
Ricardo, in the opposite corner, says n00bs are teh suxx0r.
Therefore, like matter and antimatter, they must smash themselves together for our entertainment, and one shall emerge victorious.
There can be only one!
I do like the idea that if you're not proposing to blow the president's face off (and sometimes if you are) we don't bother to censure you anymore. Biting peoples' heads off, unprovoked == bad. Biting peoples' heads off, provoked == A-OK. I can live with that...
As for kodos, come ON, it's not like he ever left! koh-dos is dead, long live kodos. And if he is cleaning up crime at the T-wall then so much the better, it just goes to show how different people can be in real life vs. the intarweb.
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jt512
Aug 25, 2005, 10:43 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Wait. What? Jay = me? I only control the order of the features on the FP (and that for less than 48 hours). I don't want any say over what legitimate users post in forums. Get it away from me! no no, I mean jt512. Anson already coded up an Evil Plot To Allow Users More Control of Teh Forums; Jay sez the front page should remain as it is, a torrent of n00bery.
Not that I have a vote or anythhing, but I'd be all in favor of individual users having more control over what they see on the front page. What I think is BS is having some formula determine what I see based on some programmer's interpretation of how my actions on the site determine my preferences.
In reply to: Ricardo, in the opposite corner, says n00bs are teh suxx0r. Therefore, like matter and antimatter, they must smash themselves together for our entertainment, and one shall emerge victorious.
Could be wrong, but if you can devise an experiment in which a particle and its antiparticle meet and one emerges, then you've got yourself a Nobel.
-Jay
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papounet
Aug 26, 2005, 9:11 AM
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On Dr Piton's issue, his post were entertaining at first. I must say they have drawn me into rc. After some time pondering the "advices", I can only say that the most beneficial aspect were perhaps that they encouraged some people (at least me) to think over the various solutions to the problems of aid climbing. I believe that, for good and bad, he may have inspired some to try aid. Nonetheless, from some glimpses, I believe I understand some of why he is persona non grata.
Have you considered how stroked he would be to see that he is still very much a discussion point so long after his last post. I am 200% certain he has an alert to tell him how often he comes up here ;-).
On improvments suggestions, I have one to offer:
Why don't you display the rating of the user or color code it ?
why not try a bonus based on higly rated posts number vs. total post number and a malus based on number of users who ignores you.
The rank from boulderer to demented typist may be funny but aren't that helpful.
I have seen the signal to noise ratio go up and down for some time.
To cut down on repat threads , why not have better sticky (such as one on cordelette or one on dyneema in the gear forum) ?
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atg200
Aug 27, 2005, 12:44 AM
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it seems to me that talking about aid climbing is generally pretty dull.
for the most part, 90% of all questions anybody asks could be handled merely by that person reading john long's how to climb big walls book and then getting a few pitches under their belts. the simple topics are boring, repetitive and pointless. worse is when some jackass gumbie tells a guy like fish that he doesn't know what he is talking about when answering one of those simple questions.
the remaining interesting things to talk about for the most part require a real expert to get any real insight. there is nothing that i or the other guys heading up trade routes can tell you that you shouldn't be able to figure out pretty easily on your own by logging more pitches. i roll my eyes when i see people wanting blow by blow instructions for how to do certain tasks rather than just spending some time and figuring things out. i certainly did that years ago when pete was first on the scene, and really very little of what he told me has been very helpful in the long run. you just don't really gain any mastery over these systems without a lot of time and being bright enough to figure it out, and the experience of learning to learn these systems is what makes it so that you can improvise on a wall if things go wrong, or to find better ways to do certain tasks.
in any event, the real experts seem to have all left for various reasons. some got bored, some figured it was futile, and some definitely left because of pete's attitude. i don't see how it is sustainable to have folks like klaus, bryan law, ammon, duece, or whoever post here regularly - it must get boring to pontificate all the time unless you need the ego stroking.
finally, i think that spending so much time cavalierly talking about how easy walls are is definitely getting some folks into trouble. supertaco just isn't overrun with new climbers like this site is(and nobody really talks much about climbing there anyway anymore), but i shudder when i hear about some people's plans here. there are the exceptions like ricardol that are able to just step up and go for it, but then there are others like amber who get themselves into a world of hurt because all this talk makes wall climbing seem so accessible and safe, and like everyone is doing it. i think it is a shame that big wall climbing has lost a lot of mystique because of the huge amounts of beta and spray out there.
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curt
Aug 27, 2005, 12:57 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: chased away with a big stick. In reply to: Full of "seamen." In reply to: He stuck his piton in the air a few times The truth is out there... G:lol:
Indeed, Pete is no longer here because of his countless attempts to drive his piton into inappropriate places, some of which were protected by Federal law.
Curt
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jt512
Aug 27, 2005, 3:51 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: chased away with a big stick. In reply to: Full of "seamen." In reply to: He stuck his piton in the air a few times The truth is out there... G:lol: Indeed, Pete is no longer here because of his countless attempts to drive his piton into inappropriate places, some of which were protected by Federal law. Curt
Hey, Curt, haven't we heard this joke before?
-Jay
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curt
Aug 27, 2005, 3:58 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: chased away with a big stick. In reply to: Full of "seamen." In reply to: He stuck his piton in the air a few times The truth is out there... G:lol: Indeed, Pete is no longer here because of his countless attempts to drive his piton into inappropriate places, some of which were protected by Federal law. Curt Hey, Curt, haven't we heard this joke before? -Jay
I suppose that's quite possible, Jay.
Curt
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climbhigher
Aug 27, 2005, 8:20 AM
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Pete has contributed Lot to this forum even if most of it is bullshit. I learned how to dock a pig by reading his shit. And he gave me alot of food for thought.
It's not like you need to know all the stuff Pete knows to climb walls. Did Charlie Porter dock his pig? probably not. He probably would beat the hell out of his sling with a hammer until the sling snapped and there went the pig.
Just learn the basics. Besides, Tricks are for kids.
So, where on this forum did Pete exhibit any kind of child porn or any porn what so ever? I would like to know. And I am not defending him. I just hate childish rumors. And just because he likes 18.... 20, 21....23....25...28...33 year olds does not make him a pedophile. Might make him kind of weird, but does not make him a ped.
Keep it simple stupid.
Peace out
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papounet
Aug 27, 2005, 2:59 PM
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In reply to: ... and the experience of learning to learn these systems is what makes it so that you can improvise on a wall if things go wrong, or to find better ways to do certain tasks.
true, totally true, and apply to any climb where things can go wrong (multi pitch, alpine,..)
It is not a question of having paid our dues to the way olders have toiled before you, but it is about having internalized how the whole environnement works, your own capabilities and the limits of your equipment.
Giving only ONE best way to do some thing (such as setting up a belay station with this or that equipment) set up the poor listener to be stranded if he does no longer have the right gear.
Edited for grammatical reasons (may still be incorrect or difficult to understand)
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climbhigher
Aug 27, 2005, 3:43 PM
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Hey Curt. Pete was hitting on minors in here? Sending them PM's?
Here's a question for a Dr Piton. Has anyone ever used a 6 mil with a 9 mil climbing rope to reppel on? What was the outcome? For alpine climbing.
Can you double up a 6mil and reppel on it alone? 7mil assesory cord? 8 mil assesory card? More of a alpine question.
Is 15 quickdraws and 20 free biners enough for A4? A5? How many screamers do you carry? Where do you use them?
Do you carry more quickdraws or more biners?
How often do you equalize placements when climbing A4....A5. Is it pretty common practice.
Can a person solo Elcap in a push in 48 hours without bonking? What strategies do you use to keep from BONKING while doing El Cap in a push?
I try to think of how much water i need per a pitch not how much water i need per a day. Like 1 quart per a pitch climbed that day. Is this a reasonable way to decide how much water you need?
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stymingersfink
Sep 8, 2005, 6:54 PM
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In reply to: Hey Curt. Pete was hitting on minors in here? Sending them PM's? Here's a question for a Dr Piton. Has anyone ever used a 6 mil with a 9 mil climbing rope to reppel on? What was the outcome? For alpine climbing. Can you double up a 6mil and reppel on it alone? 7mil assesory cord? 8 mil assesory card? More of a alpine question. Is 15 quickdraws and 20 free biners enough for A4? A5? How many screamers do you carry? Where do you use them? Do you carry more quickdraws or more biners? How often do you equalize placements when climbing A4....A5. Is it pretty common practice. Can a person solo Elcap in a push in 48 hours without bonking? What strategies do you use to keep from BONKING while doing El Cap in a push? I try to think of how much water i need per a pitch not how much water i need per a day. Like 1 quart per a pitch climbed that day. Is this a reasonable way to decide how much water you need?
i'm NOT dr. piton, but I'll give it a shot.
In reply to: Can you double up a 6mil and reppel on it alone? 7mil assesory cord? 8 mil assesory card? More of a alpine question.
1. a. 6/9 rapping. I would single line rap the 9mm cord, using a 'biner block and utilizing the 6mm as a pull cord. The 6mm cord would be threaded through my belay device so I would not lose it in the wind, though I would not put tension on it with my brake hand.
b. Esprit ropes out of Canada makes a 6mm "Bone Dry" static line. I believe they categorized it as an Expeditionary Escape Rope. It is designed to be carried on longer alpine climbs, where one may need to back off quickly. I would probably single-line rap this cord in an emergency if necessary, provided i could generate enough friction with my belay devices to control descent (extra biners, biner wrap, etc.).
c. Most ski patrollers in this area carry 5 or 6mm accessory cord to double up for rappelling out of tight spots. They will typically use once then destroy. Would I rap more than a single pitch using such small cord? Probably not, unless the other option was to die a freezing death, in which case I have set myself up for a nasty epic.
d. 7mm and larger accessory cord as an Alpine emergency rap cord? I'd feel better about rapping on the larger sizes, but accessory cord is typically not a dry treated rope, so see item 1b above for a better option. Once you start getting into the 8mm size, I'll use one of my old dry-treated Iceline's over accessory cord any day.
In reply to: Is 15 quickdraws and 20 free biners enough for A4? A5? How many screamers do you carry? Where do you use them?
2. a. Um, no. You'll need a shipoopi-load more gear to get up to that A4/5 pitch. Once you get there, you're probably looking at lots of c-heads, hooks and head scratching trying to figure out what the heck you're going to do next. There probably won't BE gear to clip behind you, so 20 free biners is probably enough for this pitch, but then again, who knows till you're up there?
b. 6-8 scream-aids, 2-3 Zipper screamers.
c. The scream-aids are for marginal placements such as small wires and other assorted crap that will hold at least 300 lbs, but probably not more than 1500lbs. The scream-aid sling fails at approx 1800lbs(according to yates). The Zipper screamers are usually utilised on the first good piece off the anchor, or off the anchor itself if there's nothing good for a fair bit. One may be saved for the last good piece before a bunch of hooking/heading too if you're thinking that far head.
In reply to: Do you carry more quickdraws or more biners?
3. Aid climbing I will always carry more biners than quickdraws for the simple fact that i carry no quickdraws while aid climbing. If I need to extend a placement, I will do so with one of the assortment of slings carried off the back of my chest harness. Free biners? 50 is a bare minimum, 65-70 usually feels pretty good. Some may carry as many as 100.
In reply to: How often do you equalize placements when climbing A4....A5. Is it pretty common practice?
4. Equalizing placements on A4/5? Well, if all i could get were a couple of #1 c-heads, then they would have to be equalized. Equalized hooks? Heard of it being done, but i've never done it myself. Other than that, what's going to hold in the event of a fall? By definition, probably nothing. In the event I do come across a couple of good placements in the middle of a field of crap, of course I'll make a mini equalized anchor out of it. Wouldn't you?
In reply to: Can a person solo Elcap in a push in 48 hours without bonking? What strategies do you use to keep from BONKING while doing El Cap in a push?
5. a. Didn't Potter solo the nose+hd in <24 hrs? Maybe Ammon can answer this one for you.
b. I don't climb El Cap in a push, but on other climbs keeping tabs on my hydration and caloric intake helps prevent the bonk. Being physically fit helps too.
In reply to: I try to think of how much water i need per a pitch not how much water i need per a day. Like 1 quart per a pitch climbed that day. Is this a reasonable way to decide how much water you need?
6. Seems reasonable to me, as long as you can hit your target number of pitches for the day. In my book it all comes down to the same quantity really. Some pitches might take you an hour, during which you might only drink 1 pint of water. The next pitch taking 4 hours might result in your consumption of the left over water from the previous pitch, the entire quart budgeted for the pitch you're on, plus a sip or two from the next pitchs' water ration.
I prefer to think in climbing days. Some days i'll budget 4-5 pitches of relatively easy climbing, some days i'll budget 2-3 pitches of more difficult climbing. I would probably use the same ammount of water for these two days, everything else being equal. What works for you?
Well, how'd I do? Any more questions? Clarifications?
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jt512
Sep 8, 2005, 6:57 PM
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In reply to: Well, how'd I do?
You were royally trolled.
-Jay
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hford
Sep 8, 2005, 7:20 PM
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excellent
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atg200
Sep 8, 2005, 7:50 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Well, how'd I do? You were royally trolled. -Jay
he may have been, but that was also a terrific post. certainly better info and material for discussion than i have seen here in awhile. most definitely better than the vapid little remark you just felt obligated to make.
that 6mm/9mm suggestion in particular was a very good one that i have mentally filed away. cheers stymingersfink.
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philbox
Moderator
Sep 8, 2005, 9:54 PM
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stymingersfink has done such an exceptionally good job of answering that series of questions that I have split off the relevant posts and given them their very own thread. Gold trophy for you stymingersfink, well done.
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climbhigher
Sep 9, 2005, 3:12 AM
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Thanks for answering my questions. I got some beta from it. I have seen those Espirit ropes. The rope felt like a cable, but are super light and no way it could get water logged. It's sick when you get to the top of something and your partner pulls out the 6mm cord still factory coiled and says "Ok, time to go down now" with a shit eating grin on his face.
didn't Ammon McNeeley Bonk super hard soloing Eagles Way? He told me he was so spent he slept with his face plasterd to a urine stained ledge unable to move. Friggin Hard Core!!! It just makes me want to go suffer.
And Hans Florine looked pretty spent after he soloed the Nose in record time. Pretty impressive. Go check out his speed climbing page and see the video.
Dean is just super fit. and a Mutant. I like how he says you gotta stay in your bubble and not let the exposure get to you.
Plus, It seems like Ammon is not scared to whip when he does speed sends . Seems like he takes one big whip on every send. How does he not get hurt when he falls? I am guessing he has everything super organized on his rack and is very aware of his body position at all times?
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climbhigher
Sep 9, 2005, 3:17 AM
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OH yeah, Phil..or whoever you are? Why are u trying to make a example of me? This Aid climbing Forum is for Beginners, Intermediates, and advance climbers. But, In my humble opinion i think aid climbing is a more of an advance way to make it up the rock.
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climbhigher
Sep 9, 2005, 3:59 AM
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Still don't get what's behind your motives? You could probably be much more professional about it. If i sound like a smartass, I am not being one.
When i asked all those questions, That's exactally what i was trying to do get things moving again.
I consider myself a serious climber.
Anyways, It's 10:00 pm and i gotta climb tomorrow. After the 10 hour work day, of course.
CHEERS.
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