|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:26 AM
Post #1 of 47
(2434 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
I know this is not about rock climbing
so if it annoys you just move on. I mean
no disrespect, but do hope to tap into
some of the knowledge dispersed here.
What are your thoughts on one line
going over a house and anchored by
a static belay (in this case concrete
with eye-hooks in 5 gal paint buckets)
on each side?
Then either a self retracting lanyard or
rock climbing devices or a type of prusik knot
on the mainline allowing moving out from the
main line.
This is something that would need easy
setting up and taking down and often.
Thanks.
gmos
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Mar 29, 2009, 3:34 AM
Post #2 of 47
(2421 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
Is that a poem. If it is you are using to much symbolism because I do not know what you are talking about.
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:44 AM
Post #3 of 47
(2416 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
Try reading it again Wossey.
It's pretty straighforward.
|
|
|
|
|
rschap
Mar 29, 2009, 3:44 AM
Post #4 of 47
(2415 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 592
|
I’m not sure what you’re asking exactly, but what I have seen is a roofing crew placing a concrete block on one side of a house, on the ground, and running a rope to each person on the roof. Of course this only works if you’re on the opposite side of the house but I have seen a crew on the same side as the block before. You could use a gri gri or some other locking device to move back and forth and be safer if you like.
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:51 AM
Post #5 of 47
(2408 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
Thanks rschap. That is what I was talking about
except concrete blocks on both sides and one line.
Then some locking device on the main line and something like the Protecta retracting lanyard that
goes out 11', 3/4" web, 3" dia. 2" thick, 2.8 lbs.
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 4:13 AM
Post #8 of 47
(2370 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
Thanks rschap. I will digest this info for now and might come back at you later. In the mean time this is an interesting bit on youtube on the protecta self retracting lanyard. OSHA standards and all that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJl2unberoM
gmos
|
|
|
|
|
acorneau
Mar 29, 2009, 2:04 PM
Post #9 of 47
(2276 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 2889
|
A 5-gal bucket isn't going to be enough if a worker takes a good fall on a static rope. Better beef up your anchoring system.
Petzl make the ASAP for up and down positioning and fall-arrest:
http://www.petzl.com/...est-device-rope/asap
|
|
|
|
|
esoteric1
Mar 29, 2009, 2:51 PM
Post #10 of 47
(2249 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2002
Posts: 705
|
the weight would be fine as you have plenty of friction over the roof and up to the eve, your weak point is the anchoring into the concrete, dont go off the handles of the buckets, use concrete anchors into each of the buckets of concrete, i hope osha doesnt see this in practice.
edit, I wouldnt ask someone else to use this system without falling on it yourself first, and make sure the psi of the concrete is high.
(This post was edited by esoteric1 on Mar 29, 2009, 2:54 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:07 PM
Post #11 of 47
(2243 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
Thanks acorneau.
If you were on the ridge of a roof
with a line well anchored at both ends
and using the ASAP
could you fall either way and expect
to have the slide stopped?
You can get about 95 lbs. per 5 gal
bucket. Three roped together would
give you a little margin even if the
static belay "took off" a little bit.
|
|
|
|
|
rschap
Mar 29, 2009, 3:22 PM
Post #12 of 47
(2234 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 592
|
I don’t know if any device could stop a fall both directions, not one for climbing any ways. You’d have to flip the device over at the top.
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:25 PM
Post #13 of 47
(2231 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
Thanks esoteric1.
This would be solo roofering (to coin a word).
No OSHA no involvement of others.
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Mar 29, 2009, 3:35 PM
Post #14 of 47
(2221 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
If you are doing this as an industrial application while working - paid - on a roof. I'll assume that you are thinking of tangent applications while roofing as a profession, then this setup would be in violation of many OSHA rules. Three 5 gallon buckets with concrete in them, is going to be nowhere near safe for this.
Take a look into the requirements, as well as state and local codes and ordinances pertaining to what you want to do. Leave the craziness and tomfoolery to the climbers. Industrial applications of fall arresting gear require some beefy anchors. Concrete buckets and a static line, while it sounds good, will not meet these requirements.
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:39 PM
Post #15 of 47
(2215 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
I had thought about two locking devices
pointed in opposite direction and the
lanyard connected to both of them.
Then taking a tumble from the roof ridge
in either direction expecting one to hold.
Or perhaps one of the prusiking knots
that I assume don't know up from down.
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:57 PM
Post #16 of 47
(2203 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
Thanks epoch.
I agree with your comments about OSHA and other rules and regulations.
Think of the discussion as outside those circumstances and purely as a climbing problem
with various constraints.
|
|
|
|
|
rschap
Mar 29, 2009, 4:06 PM
Post #17 of 47
(2195 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 592
|
Yeah I thought about that too epoch, I figured there was more to it that he wasn’t telling us or that we would one day see him on here http://www.darwinawards.com/. Either way…
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Mar 29, 2009, 4:18 PM
Post #18 of 47
(2182 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
gmos wrote: Thanks epoch. I agree with your comments about OSHA and other rules and regulations. Think of the discussion as outside those circumstances and purely as a climbing problem with various constraints.
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 4:20 PM
Post #19 of 47
(2181 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
No nothing that complicated.
Just questions in themselves.
Nothing more.
|
|
|
|
|
xtrmecat
Mar 29, 2009, 4:32 PM
Post #20 of 47
(2168 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548
|
One other consideration, the five gallon buckets for counterweight definitely are not going to work at all. I cannot in good conscience not mention the handle attachment, and recommending a barrel hitch on a non tapered plastic tube is equally stupid.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
gdtbave
Mar 29, 2009, 4:43 PM
Post #21 of 47
(2160 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2009
Posts: 14
|
GMOS, I'm sure that it's occurred to you tie in your 11' lanyard somewhere near the peak of the roof? Anywhere else and you'd pretty much deck off a 10' roof I think? Also, is there maybe a chance of swinging back, through a window  I dunno, just a couple considerations, good luck 
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 4:54 PM
Post #22 of 47
(2154 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
Thanks Bob.
I had not really gotten into the details of
the 5 gal. paint buckets of concrete, but
had expected to have steel anchors embedded
into the concrete. That would certainly require
careful thought and research.
But the more interesting question is what locking
device or knot would move easily along a line and
hold both when the line was going up and hold on
the other side of the ridge when the line would then
be going down.
|
|
|
|
|
gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 5:00 PM
Post #23 of 47
(2145 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 16
|
xtrmecat --
Yeah, like John McClane in Die Hard.
|
|
|
|
|
gdtbave
Mar 29, 2009, 5:06 PM
Post #24 of 47
(2142 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2009
Posts: 14
|
Would it be more simple to tie a bunch of alpine butterfly loops, one every few feet, and clip into those?
|
|
|
|
|
xtrmecat
Mar 29, 2009, 5:10 PM
Post #25 of 47
(2139 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548
|
I think the best solution to your question of non directional lockup is this;
http://www.animatedknots.com/prusikrescue/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
I can be loaded in any direction, has ease of movement, tending it is simple, cost effective, and can be visually inspected at a glance.
It has no provision to backup though. You should never trust you life to a single piece of gear. The other potential problem is non locking of the hitch, is the moment it crosses the roof edge, and is loaded with roof edge weight that could delay tightening, along with grit involved, as in asphalt shingles, or tar on soft goods. Soft goods do not do well when subjected to sharp edges, as in flashing, gutter tin, chimney flues, etc. Highly suspect at best.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
