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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:26 AM
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I know this is not about rock climbing so if it annoys you just move on. I mean no disrespect, but do hope to tap into some of the knowledge dispersed here. What are your thoughts on one line going over a house and anchored by a static belay (in this case concrete with eye-hooks in 5 gal paint buckets) on each side? Then either a self retracting lanyard or rock climbing devices or a type of prusik knot on the mainline allowing moving out from the main line. This is something that would need easy setting up and taking down and often. Thanks. gmos
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johnwesely
Mar 29, 2009, 3:34 AM
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Is that a poem. If it is you are using to much symbolism because I do not know what you are talking about.
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:44 AM
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Try reading it again Wossey. It's pretty straighforward.
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rschap
Mar 29, 2009, 3:44 AM
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I’m not sure what you’re asking exactly, but what I have seen is a roofing crew placing a concrete block on one side of a house, on the ground, and running a rope to each person on the roof. Of course this only works if you’re on the opposite side of the house but I have seen a crew on the same side as the block before. You could use a gri gri or some other locking device to move back and forth and be safer if you like.
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:51 AM
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Thanks rschap. That is what I was talking about except concrete blocks on both sides and one line. Then some locking device on the main line and something like the Protecta retracting lanyard that goes out 11', 3/4" web, 3" dia. 2" thick, 2.8 lbs.
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 4:13 AM
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Thanks rschap. I will digest this info for now and might come back at you later. In the mean time this is an interesting bit on youtube on the protecta self retracting lanyard. OSHA standards and all that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJl2unberoM gmos
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acorneau
Mar 29, 2009, 2:04 PM
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A 5-gal bucket isn't going to be enough if a worker takes a good fall on a static rope. Better beef up your anchoring system. Petzl make the ASAP for up and down positioning and fall-arrest: http://www.petzl.com/...est-device-rope/asap
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esoteric1
Mar 29, 2009, 2:51 PM
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the weight would be fine as you have plenty of friction over the roof and up to the eve, your weak point is the anchoring into the concrete, dont go off the handles of the buckets, use concrete anchors into each of the buckets of concrete, i hope osha doesnt see this in practice. edit, I wouldnt ask someone else to use this system without falling on it yourself first, and make sure the psi of the concrete is high.
(This post was edited by esoteric1 on Mar 29, 2009, 2:54 PM)
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:07 PM
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Thanks acorneau. If you were on the ridge of a roof with a line well anchored at both ends and using the ASAP could you fall either way and expect to have the slide stopped? You can get about 95 lbs. per 5 gal bucket. Three roped together would give you a little margin even if the static belay "took off" a little bit.
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rschap
Mar 29, 2009, 3:22 PM
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I don’t know if any device could stop a fall both directions, not one for climbing any ways. You’d have to flip the device over at the top.
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:25 PM
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Thanks esoteric1. This would be solo roofering (to coin a word). No OSHA no involvement of others.
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epoch
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Mar 29, 2009, 3:35 PM
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If you are doing this as an industrial application while working - paid - on a roof. I'll assume that you are thinking of tangent applications while roofing as a profession, then this setup would be in violation of many OSHA rules. Three 5 gallon buckets with concrete in them, is going to be nowhere near safe for this. Take a look into the requirements, as well as state and local codes and ordinances pertaining to what you want to do. Leave the craziness and tomfoolery to the climbers. Industrial applications of fall arresting gear require some beefy anchors. Concrete buckets and a static line, while it sounds good, will not meet these requirements.
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:39 PM
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I had thought about two locking devices pointed in opposite direction and the lanyard connected to both of them. Then taking a tumble from the roof ridge in either direction expecting one to hold. Or perhaps one of the prusiking knots that I assume don't know up from down.
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 3:57 PM
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Thanks epoch. I agree with your comments about OSHA and other rules and regulations. Think of the discussion as outside those circumstances and purely as a climbing problem with various constraints.
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rschap
Mar 29, 2009, 4:06 PM
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Yeah I thought about that too epoch, I figured there was more to it that he wasn’t telling us or that we would one day see him on here http://www.darwinawards.com/. Either way…
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epoch
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Mar 29, 2009, 4:18 PM
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gmos wrote: Thanks epoch. I agree with your comments about OSHA and other rules and regulations. Think of the discussion as outside those circumstances and purely as a climbing problem with various constraints. If its purely a person with climbing (read: rigging) skills roofing a house, then I'll still reserve my comments and point them towards OSHA regulations.
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 4:20 PM
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No nothing that complicated. Just questions in themselves. Nothing more.
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xtrmecat
Mar 29, 2009, 4:32 PM
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One other consideration, the five gallon buckets for counterweight definitely are not going to work at all. I cannot in good conscience not mention the handle attachment, and recommending a barrel hitch on a non tapered plastic tube is equally stupid. Bob
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gdtbave
Mar 29, 2009, 4:43 PM
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GMOS, I'm sure that it's occurred to you tie in your 11' lanyard somewhere near the peak of the roof? Anywhere else and you'd pretty much deck off a 10' roof I think? Also, is there maybe a chance of swinging back, through a window I dunno, just a couple considerations, good luck
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 4:54 PM
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Thanks Bob. I had not really gotten into the details of the 5 gal. paint buckets of concrete, but had expected to have steel anchors embedded into the concrete. That would certainly require careful thought and research. But the more interesting question is what locking device or knot would move easily along a line and hold both when the line was going up and hold on the other side of the ridge when the line would then be going down.
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gmos
Mar 29, 2009, 5:00 PM
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xtrmecat -- Yeah, like John McClane in Die Hard.
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gdtbave
Mar 29, 2009, 5:06 PM
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Would it be more simple to tie a bunch of alpine butterfly loops, one every few feet, and clip into those?
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xtrmecat
Mar 29, 2009, 5:10 PM
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I think the best solution to your question of non directional lockup is this; http://www.animatedknots.com/prusikrescue/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com I can be loaded in any direction, has ease of movement, tending it is simple, cost effective, and can be visually inspected at a glance. It has no provision to backup though. You should never trust you life to a single piece of gear. The other potential problem is non locking of the hitch, is the moment it crosses the roof edge, and is loaded with roof edge weight that could delay tightening, along with grit involved, as in asphalt shingles, or tar on soft goods. Soft goods do not do well when subjected to sharp edges, as in flashing, gutter tin, chimney flues, etc. Highly suspect at best. Bob
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