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majid_sabet
Dec 15, 2010, 10:57 PM
Post #76 of 94
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you folks are protecting this vids and those in action cause its from your backyard
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Dec 15, 2010, 11:37 PM)
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bearbreeder
Dec 15, 2010, 11:06 PM
Post #77 of 94
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Oh majid majid majid
now your making assumptions out of yr azZ
if it was yosar or timbuktu or mars mont olympus sar ... Id still say the same thing
professional courtesy...
And ud still spew off no doubt
yr saying now that all canadians are blind nationalistic bums ...wow
hmmmmm
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bill413
Dec 15, 2010, 11:53 PM
Post #78 of 94
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coastal_climber wrote: What would being from the US have to do with it?
Everybody could sue each other.
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summerprophet
Dec 16, 2010, 2:58 AM
Post #79 of 94
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Per the high angle rescue standards I have been taught, a single point of attachment is sufficient if you are not weighting the system.
Your firm stance is your primary anchor, with the single connection as the backup.
Its not climbing folks, its rescue... different rules apply.
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notapplicable
Dec 16, 2010, 4:40 AM
Post #80 of 94
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coastal_climber wrote: notapplicable wrote: coastal_climber wrote: majid_sabet wrote: bearbreeder wrote: so are you saying that they forgot the rules in this case? let me ask you this ... do you believe that the actions of parks canada rescue in this video put lives at risks unnecessarily? ... and if so, is it not your moral obligation as a SAR person to contact parks canada about these gaps? either you believe it safe or you do not ... Without knowing what the standard procedures in this sort of situation are in Alberta, I can't say what is accepted or not. Having basic personal protection gear (ie, gloves) is pretty universal when blood is present. if you closely watch the vids, you see that guys on the ground have their gloves on cause they are medic and follow their rules. I guess at the end, one climber is saved and we can move on. Since they are doing more than just getting vitals, you can see how easy those gloves would become ripped and useless. [image]http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Industry/industury-motoiq-clean/A1U0759/844876183_Rg9yk-L.jpg[/image] Wow, I've never seen those before!
I've used them and they are as durable as they look but still have a pretty sensitive feel.
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dan2see
Dec 16, 2010, 7:26 AM
Post #81 of 94
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summerprophet wrote: Per the high angle rescue standards I have been taught, a single point of attachment is sufficient if you are not weighting the system. Your firm stance is your primary anchor, with the single connection as the backup. Its not climbing folks, its rescue... different rules apply.
When I first learned to climb, we had to assemble our own top-rope anchors (under supervision, of course). We learned very seriously that every anchor system must be redundant -- and redundancy really saved our butts.
Climbing up and down, I felt that my own holds were the primary anchor, and the gear was back-up. But nobody else would go along with that logic, so I let it go. I actually forgot about it altogether.
The irony is that now I scramble. There is no back-up. Your holds are primary and that's all you get.
Experience builds skill and confidence. Although I don't do "unroped solo", I have climbed and traversed where any slip is fatal (like, 300 meters straight down), so I learn to analyze the situation, and know my ability, and take safer choices.
Mind you, I don't often scramble higher than my fear of falling allows, but when I do, I am very aware of my primary holds. Scrambling builds climbing skills, and climbing builds scramble skills.
So I understand the need for redundant gear. I plan for it, use it, and double-check it. But I don't obsess about. Instead, practice routines at home, and on the rocks I try to make wise decisions, based on the situation.
My attitude has changed a lot since I first started climbing at Rattlesnake Point. Especially when I moved to the Rockies -- all bets were off when I had to learn to climb on this different terrain. A lot of rules from Rattlesnake simply can't be done in the Rockies. But we don't simply say "Do this, don't do that" -- it's absolutely imperative that you analyze the situation, and make smart decisions.
On the other hand, I'm not all that smart or skillful. I make mistakes. Sometimes I do something wrong. But at least I'm aware of that, and every snafu is an opportunity to learn how to do it better. My skill grows. And my confidence. And especially the joy and fun I get, playing on the rocks. I love it up there.
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sherpa79
Dec 16, 2010, 2:24 PM
Post #82 of 94
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altelis wrote: HOWEVER, this was posted under "accident and incident ANALYSIS". And that's what Majid was doing. It's pretty typical to de-brief incidents, whether the final outcome is successful or not. Why? Because mistakes are ALWAYS made.
majid_sabet wrote: At the end, we want to improve our skills and give the best care without jeopardizing our own lives.
And yes. Also I think this applies across the board to both climbers and rescue professionals.
And Majid, if folks on this board question the validity of what you say, or whether or not it comes from any actual experience or knowledge I believe it is solely because of your attitude. How can we assume you are employed in a field where a modicum of understanding and courtesy is necessary when you don't seem capable of expressing these attributes?
And feel free to post some instructional videos of your team's perfect rescue for our analysis. I'm sure it would be most welcome.
(This post was edited by sherpa79 on Dec 16, 2010, 2:55 PM)
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coastal_climber
Dec 16, 2010, 4:19 PM
Post #83 of 94
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notapplicable wrote: coastal_climber wrote: notapplicable wrote: coastal_climber wrote: majid_sabet wrote: bearbreeder wrote: so are you saying that they forgot the rules in this case? let me ask you this ... do you believe that the actions of parks canada rescue in this video put lives at risks unnecessarily? ... and if so, is it not your moral obligation as a SAR person to contact parks canada about these gaps? either you believe it safe or you do not ... Without knowing what the standard procedures in this sort of situation are in Alberta, I can't say what is accepted or not. Having basic personal protection gear (ie, gloves) is pretty universal when blood is present. if you closely watch the vids, you see that guys on the ground have their gloves on cause they are medic and follow their rules. I guess at the end, one climber is saved and we can move on. Since they are doing more than just getting vitals, you can see how easy those gloves would become ripped and useless. [image]http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Industry/industury-motoiq-clean/A1U0759/844876183_Rg9yk-L.jpg[/image] Wow, I've never seen those before! I've used them and they are as durable as they look but still have a pretty sensitive feel.
Damn it, I was trying to be sarcastic 
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dan2see
Dec 16, 2010, 4:41 PM
Post #84 of 94
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Registered: Mar 29, 2006
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sherpa79 wrote: ... attitude. ... understanding and courtesy ... attributes?
Bears repeating:
Attitude.
Courtesy.
Attributes.
Good words, very good to repeat them.
Attitude.
Courtesy.
Attributes.
Looks even better the third time around.
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dan2see
Dec 16, 2010, 9:50 PM
Post #85 of 94
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Good news!
This thread has dropped off from rc.com's front page "Forum Discussions" list, and so I had to find it in "Forums: Recent Posts". We have sunk down to 23rd spot, and while I watched, somebody else posted something, which drove us down to the 24th!
Good going, guys! I had thought that rc.com's members should be smarter than me, and this proves me right.
But I'd like to thank BB one final time, for posting the action video of Litton's rescue, and also the story. Your post provides valuable lessons and reality checks for all of us climbers.
P.S. - but then I got this chilling thought: is Litton alright?
(This post was edited by dan2see on Dec 16, 2010, 9:52 PM)
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notapplicable
Dec 16, 2010, 10:57 PM
Post #86 of 94
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coastal_climber wrote: notapplicable wrote: coastal_climber wrote: notapplicable wrote: coastal_climber wrote: majid_sabet wrote: bearbreeder wrote: so are you saying that they forgot the rules in this case? let me ask you this ... do you believe that the actions of parks canada rescue in this video put lives at risks unnecessarily? ... and if so, is it not your moral obligation as a SAR person to contact parks canada about these gaps? either you believe it safe or you do not ... Without knowing what the standard procedures in this sort of situation are in Alberta, I can't say what is accepted or not. Having basic personal protection gear (ie, gloves) is pretty universal when blood is present. if you closely watch the vids, you see that guys on the ground have their gloves on cause they are medic and follow their rules. I guess at the end, one climber is saved and we can move on. Since they are doing more than just getting vitals, you can see how easy those gloves would become ripped and useless. [image]http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Industry/industury-motoiq-clean/A1U0759/844876183_Rg9yk-L.jpg[/image] Wow, I've never seen those before! I've used them and they are as durable as they look but still have a pretty sensitive feel. Damn it, I was trying to be sarcastic
I thought that might be the case...but since those gloves would not shred like standard latex, I figured there was a chance you were being serious.
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majid_sabet
Dec 16, 2010, 11:40 PM
Post #87 of 94
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
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sherpa79 wrote: altelis wrote: HOWEVER, this was posted under "accident and incident ANALYSIS". And that's what Majid was doing. It's pretty typical to de-brief incidents, whether the final outcome is successful or not. Why? Because mistakes are ALWAYS made. Yes majid_sabet wrote: At the end, we want to improve our skills and give the best care without jeopardizing our own lives. And yes. Also I think this applies across the board to both climbers and rescue professionals. And Majid, if folks on this board question the validity of what you say, or whether or not it comes from any actual experience or knowledge I believe it is solely because of your attitude. How can we assume you are employed in a field where a modicum of understanding and courtesy is necessary when you don't seem capable of expressing these attributes? And feel free to post some instructional videos of your team's perfect rescue for our analysis. I'm sure it would be most welcome.
Do not assume anything
I am an armchair troller and this time, I picked up on SAR guys.
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binrat
Dec 16, 2010, 11:58 PM
Post #88 of 94
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Posts: 1155
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majid_sabet wrote: Do not assume anything I am an armchair troller and this time, I picked up SAR guys. 
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dan2see
Dec 17, 2010, 3:01 AM
Post #89 of 94
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but especially,
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coastal_climber
Dec 18, 2010, 12:04 AM
Post #90 of 94
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Majid is a waste of bandwidth, don't let it bother you.
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dan2see
Dec 18, 2010, 1:20 AM
Post #91 of 94
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coastal_climber wrote: ... Majid is a waste of bandwidth, don't let it bother you.
Yeah yeah I know!
There's no benefit in trying to improve Majid's attitude and manners. And no I'm not a "devil's advocate". More like a fish biting on shiny bait.
But don't get me wrong ... I enjoyed writing some of the stuff I wrote. It's fun to write about life as it really is. And maybe that's what I wanted to do in the first place: Life as it really is, and not rules to obey.
There is an ugly truth about these posts: thread drift.
But that's a topic for another thread.
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majid_sabet
Dec 18, 2010, 2:09 AM
Post #92 of 94
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coastal_climber wrote: Majid is a waste of bandwidth, don't let it bother you.
you boys are protecting a wrong setup like how G Bush was running the office
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spikeddem
Dec 21, 2010, 3:03 PM
Post #93 of 94
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I've never seen a bunch of people make majid's posts look so rational and normal.
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airforceclmr
Dec 21, 2010, 3:14 PM
Post #94 of 94
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binrat wrote: airforceclmr wrote: binrat wrote: bearbreeder wrote: full story ... note the single point of attachment leash with a knotted dyneema sling for both rangers ... id assume that they know what they are doing im sure some people on this board will have a fit with that ;) The last I heard, they use full Mtn guides for rescue. ^ These guys are Parks Canada employee's. I've worked with a bunch who are ACMG guides and drag clients around on their time off. You don't need to be a full guide to make the grade but it helps as the competition for the job is rather tough. Cheers, Andrew I have a friend who just apply within the last couple of months to Parks Canada. His application was turned down due to him not being a full mountain guide. He now is on the path to become a guide.
Well thats a big change from that last time i worked with the Banff crew...not a bad change i would argue.
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