|
|
|
|
shotwell
Jan 21, 2012, 3:42 PM
Post #26 of 66
(4378 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 6, 2009
Posts: 366
|
naitch wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? And what exactly do you think shuts are for? Closed shuts are the worst hardware that could possibly be used for an anchor. Open shuts only have the benefit of convenience. Using the wrong hardware is no reason to encourage a rap first ethic in sport climbing. Franklin WV. At lot of the climb have shuts that are wearing from that very reason. Closed shuts are found throughout the area. People have different opinions about rethreading and being lowered vs. rethreading and rapping. Both to preserve what's there and because of having a trad background, we chose/choose to rap instead.
Choosing to rap versus saying closed shuts were installed with the intent to rap are two really different statements. If the anchors are worn, they should be fixed. With all due respect to your background, that is sport climbing's view on fixed gear.
|
|
|
|
|
naitch
Jan 21, 2012, 3:54 PM
Post #27 of 66
(4371 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2002
Posts: 539
|
shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? And what exactly do you think shuts are for? Closed shuts are the worst hardware that could possibly be used for an anchor. Open shuts only have the benefit of convenience. Using the wrong hardware is no reason to encourage a rap first ethic in sport climbing. Franklin WV. At lot of the climb have shuts that are wearing from that very reason. Closed shuts are found throughout the area. People have different opinions about rethreading and being lowered vs. rethreading and rapping. Both to preserve what's there and because of having a trad background, we chose/choose to rap instead. Choosing to rap versus saying closed shuts were installed with the intent to rap are two really different statements. If the anchors are worn, they should be fixed. With all due respect to your background, that is sport climbing's view on fixed gear.
I don't pretend to know the intent of the person who bolted the route. I'm just sharing our rationale and that of the person who introduced us to the area and those we climb with.
|
|
|
|
|
jae8908
Jan 21, 2012, 4:11 PM
Post #28 of 66
(4367 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 15, 2011
Posts: 270
|
naitch wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? And what exactly do you think shuts are for? Closed shuts are the worst hardware that could possibly be used for an anchor. Open shuts only have the benefit of convenience. Using the wrong hardware is no reason to encourage a rap first ethic in sport climbing. Franklin WV. At lot of the climb have shuts that are wearing from that very reason. Closed shuts are found throughout the area. People have different opinions about rethreading and being lowered vs. rethreading and rapping. Both to preserve what's there and because of having a trad background, we chose/choose to rap instead. Choosing to rap versus saying closed shuts were installed with the intent to rap are two really different statements. If the anchors are worn, they should be fixed. With all due respect to your background, that is sport climbing's view on fixed gear. I don't pretend to know the intent of the person who bolted the route. I'm just sharing our rationale and that of the person who introduced us to the area and those we climb with.
I and everyone that I climb with rappels off instead of lowering as well. If you have to rethread the rope anyway, why not save the permanent gear at the top? It makes them last longer and people don't have to take time and effort to replace them as often. Therefore I agree with naitch.
|
|
|
|
|
agdavis
Jan 21, 2012, 4:51 PM
Post #29 of 66
(4355 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2009
Posts: 310
|
jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay
Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness?
|
|
|
|
|
shockabuku
Jan 21, 2012, 5:02 PM
Post #30 of 66
(4350 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route.
What whole are you looking at? I think you are categorically incorrect.
|
|
|
|
|
caughtinside
Jan 21, 2012, 5:06 PM
Post #31 of 66
(4344 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603
|
agdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness?
I think I've probably seen this trattitude on the internet at least 1000 times now.
|
|
|
|
|
shotwell
Jan 21, 2012, 5:16 PM
Post #32 of 66
(4341 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 6, 2009
Posts: 366
|
agdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness?
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/...pe=route&id=1114
Rappell that?
Lowering is for safety, not convenience.
|
|
|
|
|
agdavis
Jan 21, 2012, 5:25 PM
Post #33 of 66
(4338 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2009
Posts: 310
|
shotwell wrote: agdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness? Rappell that? Lowering is for safety, not convenience.
Why wouldn't you rap that? Maybe it isn't obvious from the picture, but it looks fine..
|
|
|
|
|
shotwell
Jan 21, 2012, 5:30 PM
Post #34 of 66
(4336 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 6, 2009
Posts: 366
|
agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: agdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness? Rappell that? Lowering is for safety, not convenience. Why wouldn't you rap that? Maybe it isn't obvious from the picture, but it looks fine..
Why don't you go try it and report back?
The reason is that the route is 80 feet long and so overhung you turn around and look straight out to belay. You will not clean it on rappell.
|
|
|
|
|
olderic
Jan 21, 2012, 5:45 PM
Post #35 of 66
(4332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 1539
|
shotwell wrote: The reason is that the route is 80 feet long and so overhung you turn around and look straight out to belay. You will not clean it on rappell.
Where has cleaning been mentioned prior to this in this thread?
This argument has been going on for at least 20 years. Same predictable back and forth every time. Lowering is statistically safer - even though it gets screwed up in a regular basis. Lowering will wear out the gear (including YOUR rope - but not to any significant degree) faster. It may also kink your rope. It will help a lot of you are trying to clean the route and its overhanging. Often times route are equipped with anchors that are easily replaceable when worn. But there is no doubt that recommending it is also contributing to the dumbing down of climbing which after all is what sport climbing (and to a great extent this site) is all about.
Now the expected responses should include the words "trad" "obsolete", "dinosaur" and the like, blah blah blah. Come up with something new - should the compressor have been chopped - wait - that one is 40 years old.
|
|
|
|
|
agdavis
Jan 21, 2012, 5:54 PM
Post #36 of 66
(4331 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2009
Posts: 310
|
shotwell wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: agdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness? Rappell that? Lowering is for safety, not convenience. Why wouldn't you rap that? Maybe it isn't obvious from the picture, but it looks fine.. Why don't you go try it and report back? The reason is that the route is 80 feet long and so overhung you turn around and look straight out to belay. You will not clean it on rappell.
Then that's definitely the exception and not the rule.
|
|
|
|
|
shotwell
Jan 21, 2012, 5:55 PM
Post #37 of 66
(4331 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 6, 2009
Posts: 366
|
olderic wrote: shotwell wrote: The reason is that the route is 80 feet long and so overhung you turn around and look straight out to belay. You will not clean it on rappell. Where has cleaning been mentioned prior to this in this thread? This argument has been going on for at least 20 years. Same predictable back and forth every time. Lowering is statistically safer - even though it gets screwed up in a regular basis. Lowering will wear out the gear (including YOUR rope - but not to any significant degree) faster. It may also kink your rope. It will help a lot of you are trying to clean the route and its overhanging. Often times route are equipped with anchors that are easily replaceable when worn. But there is no doubt that recommending it is also contributing to the dumbing down of climbing which after all is what sport climbing (and to a great extent this site) is all about. Now the expected responses should include the words "trad" "obsolete", "dinosaur" and the like, blah blah blah. Come up with something new - should the compressor have been chopped - wait - that one is 40 years old.
Put your glasses on gramps, I originally responded to a post about a similar accident while cleaning a sport pitch.
Furthermore, lowering is not dumbing down the sport, it is the logical way to clean a single pitch climb. Bringing multipitch tactics to single pitch sport climbs does not make sense.
|
|
|
|
|
shotwell
Jan 21, 2012, 5:57 PM
Post #38 of 66
(4330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 6, 2009
Posts: 366
|
agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: agdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness? Rappell that? Lowering is for safety, not convenience. Why wouldn't you rap that? Maybe it isn't obvious from the picture, but it looks fine.. Why don't you go try it and report back? The reason is that the route is 80 feet long and so overhung you turn around and look straight out to belay. You will not clean it on rappell. Then that's definitely the exception and not the rule.
In sport climbing? Wrong again.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jan 21, 2012, 7:07 PM
Post #39 of 66
(4319 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
agdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness?
It's not laziness. It's speed, safety, and convenience; and it's what the anchor is for. Ask the guy who installed the anchors what they're for. Read what the guidebook says they're for. I know most of the local sport crag developers pretty well, and they shake their heads in bewilderment whenever they see you n00bs rapping "to save the anchors."
If and when the anchors get worn, you replace them. Just like you replace your draws when they get worn. What are you going to do if you ever get strong enough to climb a route too steep to rap off of—you know, a real sport route.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jan 21, 2012, 7:18 PM
Post #40 of 66
(4318 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
caughtinside wrote: agdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness? I think I've probably seen this trattitude on the internet at least 1000 times now.
It's a combination of traditude and gumbitude. At any of the SoCal areas that have become (eg, NJC), or have always been (eg, Holcomb Valley), dominated by gumbies, you see mostly save-the-anchor rappelling. At the crags where the pros climb, hardly anyone ever raps. Can you imagine rapping the harder routes at that place where you're rumored to have flashed the warm-up?
"Save the anchors" is the new gumby meme.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
shotwell
Jan 21, 2012, 7:33 PM
Post #41 of 66
(4314 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 6, 2009
Posts: 366
|
jt512 wrote: caughtinside wrote: agdavis wrote: jt512 wrote: agdavis wrote: shotwell wrote: naitch wrote: Except for the fact that the last person has to clean and rap. Where we climb we don't lower through the anchors... Incredibly uncommon for sport climbing. I personally assume that any sport pitch is bolted with the expectation that the. last climber will lower. I also contribute sacrificial gear to anchors for this reason. If you don't mind me asking, where do you climb? While there isn't much black and white in climbing, I must say that when looking at United States climbing as a whole that you are categorically incorrect. Chains are for rapping, not lowering (and also not for building your anchor). Lowering off of chains not only causes premature wear but also creates the incentive for others to do the same. While it might be tempting to lower because you don't have to thread half the rope as you do when rapping, show some respect to the route. No, you're wrong. At almost any sport area, you can lower off whatever anchors there are, including chains. Chains are pretty common sport anchors in the US. You can lower through them. Jay Why would you ruin fixed gear out of sheer laziness? I think I've probably seen this trattitude on the internet at least 1000 times now. It's a combination of traditude and gumbitude. At any of the SoCal areas that have become (eg, NJC), or have always been (eg, Holcomb Valley), dominated by gumbies, you see mostly save-the-anchor rappelling. At the crags where the pros climb, hardly anyone ever raps. Can you imagine rapping the harder routes at that place where you're rumored to have flashed the warm-up? "Save the anchors" is the new gumby meme. Jay
It seems that they are rapidly approaching extinction based on the proposed level of protection.
|
|
|
|
|
crjanow
Jan 24, 2012, 1:21 AM
Post #42 of 66
(4221 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2008
Posts: 69
|
when i saw the title for this thread i thought they were only wearing their harness
|
|
|
|
|
miles1776
Jan 24, 2012, 4:36 PM
Post #44 of 66
(4191 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 11
|
I ALWAYS lower. Since when is safety, especially in an already dangerous sport worth less than the gear? the gear can be replaced, thats what it's for. You make a mistake 80 ft off the ground trying to set up to rap (And I've seen it happen) and it's your life. Are those anchors worth more than your life? When they are worn they should get replaced.
|
|
|
|
|
avalon420
Jan 26, 2012, 5:51 AM
Post #45 of 66
(4128 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2005
Posts: 281
|
rgold wrote: Your wife is tough and resourceful and didn't panic under stress---good for her. But I'm not sure the lesson learned is to have a knife, because years ago someone in exactly the same position sliced through their harness and fell to their death. I think the lesson is to know how, under stress, to get your weight completely off the belay device so that hair or clothing can be extracted without having to cut anything.
|
|
|
|
|
lkeegan
Jan 26, 2012, 6:35 AM
Post #46 of 66
(4127 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2009
Posts: 54
|
I've had this happen to me a couple of times now. I have long hair, even in a pony tail and if I want to wear a helmet there are very few options for how I can wear my hair: down or in a low pony tail. Both lend themselves to getting sucked into a grigri.
Once I was belaying and it got sucked into the climber end of a grigri and my climber just unweighted the rope and all was fine.
The other time I fell low down on a route and my belayer got pulled up and my hair got sucked into the BRAKE end of the grigri and my belayer wasn't on the ground and the climb was overhanging so I was no where near the rock. I had to climb on a friend of mine to lower my belayer to the ground without sending rope through the grigri. It huuuurrrrrttt.
Also, don't ask me how my hair went into the break end. I have no clue how that happened.
|
|
|
|
|
carabiner96
Jan 27, 2012, 12:16 AM
Post #47 of 66
(4085 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12610
|
lkeegan wrote: I've had this happen to me a couple of times now. I have long hair, even in a pony tail and if I want to wear a helmet there are very few options for how I can wear my hair: down or in a low pony tail. Both lend themselves to getting sucked into a grigri. Once I was belaying and it got sucked into the climber end of a grigri and my climber just unweighted the rope and all was fine. The other time I fell low down on a route and my belayer got pulled up and my hair got sucked into the BRAKE end of the grigri and my belayer wasn't on the ground and the climb was overhanging so I was no where near the rock. I had to climb on a friend of mine to lower my belayer to the ground without sending rope through the grigri. It huuuurrrrrttt. Also, don't ask me how my hair went into the break end. I have no clue how that happened.
After a couple of times, I'd get my freaking hair cut or find a new sport.
|
|
|
|
|
Kartessa
Jan 27, 2012, 12:44 AM
Post #48 of 66
(4080 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 18, 2008
Posts: 7362
|
There are 2 really easy fixes for your problem:
1. Get one of those fancy helmets for a high ponytail.
Or
2. Braid your hair.
**holy shit! 2 constructive suggestions in 1 post!**
I promise it won't happen again. Sorry RC.com
|
|
|
|
|
carabiner96
Jan 27, 2012, 1:01 AM
Post #49 of 66
(4066 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12610
|
Kartessa wrote: There are 2 really easy fixes for your problem: 1. Get one of those fancy helmets for a high ponytail. Or 2. Braid your hair. **holy shit! 2 constructive suggestions in 1 post!** I promise it won't happen again. Sorry RC.com
|
|
|
|
|
avalon420
Jan 27, 2012, 3:29 AM
Post #50 of 66
(4055 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2005
Posts: 281
|
Kartessa wrote: There are 2 really easy fixes for your problem: 1. Get one of those fancy helmets for a high ponytail. Or 2. Braid your hair. **holy shit! 2 constructive suggestions in 1 post!** I promise it won't happen again. Sorry RC.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
