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tritype3
Jun 11, 2004, 2:40 PM
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My climbing partner and I plan to do a winter ascent of the Grand Teton this christmas. This climb will be our first climb in the Tetons in addition to being our first alpine style climb. We are looking for any advice/reccomendations regarding climbing the Grand, good or bad, i.e. training for the climb, where to get good photos in the winter, topos, route descriptions, gear reccomendations, etc.
Thanks
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cryder
Jun 11, 2004, 3:04 PM
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Your first alpine ascent and your first climb in the tetons... and presumably your first winter ascent and a hard north face at that? Sounds like it will be a fine day to die... and a hell of a way to get flamed on your first post. Nice.
Ha hah aha. *giggle, snort, giggles....* T1
If by some meraculous chance that you are serious... make the entire list above not your 1st, but maybe your 50th, and you will be off to a good start.
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climbingnurse
Jun 11, 2004, 3:22 PM
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In reply to: This climb will be our first climb in the Tetons in addition to being our first alpine style climb.
My advice would be to do that next christmas or even the christmas after. This christmas go up to the 'Dacks and climb Marcy and then Gothics, and then maybe a few harder peaks. Those will give you some small taste of what you'd be up against in the Tetons in winter.
Then this summer or next go spend some time doing 5th class alpine climbing in the Tetons or somewhere else out west. I think that after you've done those two things you will have some appreciation for how foolish your above post is.
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elvislegs
Jun 11, 2004, 4:09 PM
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Why not skip The Grand and head strait for the Mont Blanc Massif, maybe solo. I mean, are you serious about this climbing thing or not???
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mother_sheep
Jun 11, 2004, 4:22 PM
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I'm with elvis! You nver know, he might be ready. Maybe he's been training at the gym. knuck, knuck
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 11, 2004, 4:40 PM
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Bunch of wankers :D Any true alpinist knows that the Eigerwand in winter is the only choice for your first alpine climb 8^)
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stirnie
Jun 11, 2004, 4:45 PM
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If your plans are set to come out this winter I would suggest climbing some other peaks before you hit the Grand. If you could, you might want to try to get out here before the snow sets in to get a feel for the mountains. Alpine climbing is nothing like your normal cragging. It is even more difficult in the Winter.
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watchme
Jun 11, 2004, 5:03 PM
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Nobody has even mentioned the serious avalanche terrain up there. Be sure to have all of your assessment/rescue skills dialed.
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tritype3
Jun 11, 2004, 6:08 PM
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Ok, I put this forum up to get advice not to get blasted by those who felt the need. However, do not get me wrong I encourage responses that are against making this attempt. I even appreciate the responses that try to discourage me from this attempt. I only ask that if you are going to attack me personally that you provide me with a little substance or personal experience to validate your claim and provide me with a little bit of insight.
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elvislegs
Jun 11, 2004, 6:24 PM
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Ok. Sorry for the psuedo flame.
Here is my advice:
Just about any route in the Tetons will be a serious route. Winter conditions in western Wyoming are rough, and undpredictable.
Basically , what you are thinking of doing requires alot of avalanche training, route finding skills, weather awareness, and ALPINE CLIMBING EXPERIENCE. In short, you need to be a seasoned alpinist before you take on such an ambitious goal.
Climbing the Grand in winter for your very first route is pretty much suicide.
Your spirit is admirable, but you need to start smaller.
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joshklingbeil
Jun 11, 2004, 6:31 PM
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Make sure you tell the rangers that you have never climbed in alpine conditions and to have SAR ready for rescue......
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brianinslc
Jun 11, 2004, 7:01 PM
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In reply to: Ok, I put this forum up to get advice not to get blasted by those who felt the need. However, do not get me wrong I encourage responses that are against making this attempt. I even appreciate the responses that try to discourage me from this attempt. I only ask that if you are going to attack me personally that you provide me with a little substance or personal experience to validate your claim and provide me with a little bit of insight.
Most folks who've summitted the Grand in the winter count it among their better days in the mountains amongst the "many" routes they've done in the Tetons.
Will be a combo of luck, conditions and weather. Not uncommon to find -30F in the Tetons in late December (my only attempt it was -30F in the valley over x-mas).
Its a hard thing to plan for from afar...unless you have a bunch of time to wait out poor conditions and weather.
You have no alpine climbing experience but you want to climb the Grand, in winter (and amidst the shortest days of the year) as your first? Hmmm. A fool and his money are soon parted?
I you have access to the Mount Washington area, there's tons of training ground. But...remember...the parkin' lot of the Grand is over a 1000 feet higher than the summit of Mount Washington (although, all things being equal, Mount Washington can be a cruel mistress too, eh? I'd say on average much worse weather and conditions on Mount Washington). The vertical relief from the valley floor to the summit is 7000'+. Its a big hunk to bite off. Combine that with mandatory easy fifth class in the best of conditions and with perfect routefinding...and...well...
Good luck.
Brian in SLC
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cryder
Jun 11, 2004, 7:29 PM
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In reply to: Ok, I put this forum up to get advice not to get blasted by those who felt the need. However, do not get me wrong I encourage responses that are against making this attempt. I even appreciate the responses that try to discourage me from this attempt. I only ask that if you are going to attack me personally that you provide me with a little substance or personal experience to validate your claim and provide me with a little bit of insight.
Obviously you got a strong reaction, which is not personal, but based on the information that you provided and objectives that you listed. However, not everyone who looks for advice here goes about it the way you did... and likewise not everyone gets the reaction you got.
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crossfit2
Jun 14, 2004, 7:14 PM
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I have climbed the Grand in the summer, the fall, and the winter. I have never succesfully climbed the grand in the winter(three attempts). Winter makes the climb a different proposition all together. Many things need to come together for a succesful attempt and winter weather in western Wyoming is fickle to say the least. Slide danger is immense in Garnett canyon and above the meadows with little room for error. All the tourists on the trade routes in the summer (the ones that knock shit down on you on the Black ice couloir) are gone. The guides are gone. There will be noone up there but you and it can be a lonely place. I'm not trying to be some kind of know it all I just think that you need to look at the risks involved and decide what is right for you. I would love to say that I summited in the winter but three strikes and Im out (plus I have two kids) and man it gets cold up there! I think you would be better served doing something in the Winds, or a less committing peak in the tetons. You should at the very least climb the Grand in the summer via your proposed route and just know that it will be a lot different come winter but at least you will have some visual reference points when you are in a white out and you cant feel your feet or nose and vertigo sets in.
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mesomorf
Jun 14, 2004, 7:41 PM
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The key to a winter ascent in the Tetons (assuming fitness, avalanche awareness, mountain sense, prior experience, gear, skiing ability, etc. are all already in place) are the conditions.
Having to fit a trip in during a pre-determined timeframe is almost certainly a recipe for failure - though it's pretty much guaranteed that it will be a learning experience. Hopefully not a fatal learning experience.
The way to get good conditions is to be able to wait until they are right, and then strike quickly.
Sometime around the middle of January there is often an extended period of high pressure. This means very cold temps in the valley, but inversion will be in place - meaning it's warmer, even comfy, up high. And no new snow.
Be careful going into a new winter environment where you haven't been able to keep tabs on the evolving snowpack since the beginning of the season. And/or, know how to analyze a snow pit that you've dug down to the ground. Or several pits, on varying aspects and elevations.
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 14, 2004, 7:44 PM
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Dude. You Claim to want to climb a major mtn in winter as your first alpine climb and then you cry when you get teased a litte bit for being foolish. Now that smells like a tool to me :roll:
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paulraphael
Jun 14, 2004, 8:15 PM
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The best possibility is that you will get lucky and not be burried by an a avalanche and, you will gain about a thousand vertical feet on your skis and climbing skins with all your alpine gear on your back before running out of energy and daylight, and will head back for the car. You will then have an oportunity to make some reasonable plans over hot chocolate.
Seriously, even the approach to the lower saddle in winter is WAY more serious than anything you should take on for a first alpine climb. Try the East face of Teewinot in summer and see how you like it. Then try one of the technical ridges on Symmetry in summer. Add length, technical difficulty, danger, and commitment in small steps, and add them one at a time. This should be obvious in any game where your life is at stake.
No one should flame you for not knowing anything. But when your question suggests you don't even SUSPECT anything, people are left wondering if it's a troll, an insult to their intelligence and hard work, or just Darwinism in action.
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theclimber
Jun 16, 2004, 9:40 PM
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Man, dont listen to these goons. As far as they are concerned, if you walk out your front door you could be seriously injured and may even die from those injuries. I know you posted for some advice but you picked the wrong site. Half these jack asses dont even know anything and are more prompted to give out insults or give their GENRE of climbing knowledge. Is it risky, sure it is, but go check it out for yourself. Call, email or talk to one of the many guides in the Teton area and get their take on it. I am sure they will lead you in the right direction. Personally, I think you have balls and I admire that. You dont see that too often because everyone on here thinks your going to die and try to play big chief rather than little indian. Go get it and let me know the results!!
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natas
Jun 16, 2004, 10:28 PM
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climbing in the winds in the winter is no different than the tetons. like to see you do a winter ascent of gannett peak in the winter.
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brianinslc
Jun 16, 2004, 10:35 PM
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In reply to: climbing in the winds in the winter is no different than the tetons. like to see you do a winter ascent of gannett peak in the winter.
Hmmm....I'd argue there are pretty big differences...mostly, related to distance and access.
Windy's ain't a weekend place, unlike the Tetons. Look at all the winter ascents done in the Tetons, some, like the Grand, in a day. Compare to Gannett. Probably hasn't been done in less than 3 days in winter? I've heard tell of long, hard trips to do Gannett in the winter. Much bigger deal than the Grand, IMHO.
Sky's Witness...great book.
Brian in SLC
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natas
Jun 17, 2004, 3:34 PM
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it sounded like crossfit2 was trying to say that doing somthing in the winds in the winter was easier than the grand, that is just not true.
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theclimber
Jun 17, 2004, 4:46 PM
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Winter with Jackson Hole Mountain Guides
WINTER TRIPS SCHEDULE 2003 - 2004
• Grand Teton Winter Ascent
A one week mountaineering ascent of perhaps the most stunning mountain in the lower 48. Often used as a warm-up for Denali. Only the hardy need apply.
$1995/person for two or more.
3/13 - 3/19
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paulraphael
Jun 17, 2004, 8:39 PM
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Sure, going with a guide is a way to make it relatively safe. But it's not remotely the same thing as climbing it by yourself. Having someone else do all the decision making, all the routefinding, and of course, all the leading are just some of the things that make being a client different from being an alpinist.
It's also why people routinely get up routes with guides that would be pure russian roulette for them if they went on their own.
Look, there's always a chance these guys could make it, and even make it back. I just don't want to encourage anyone to confuse blind, ignorant reliance on luck with boldness.
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theclimber
Jun 17, 2004, 9:45 PM
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I just put that up there for his reference. If the guy wants to go on his own than he has my support. I hope he tries it on his own. If he wants to hire a guide the first time than he can reference the above post about the guides.
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crossfit2
Jun 19, 2004, 10:11 AM
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you guys are right about the winds I was just thinking of something less technical though more of a slog. I think the post regarding Teewinot or some of the satellite peaks has some merit if he wants something quick and fast
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