I did get lowered way too fast once and before I could say anything to the guy my wife ran over and kicked him in the leg and punched him in the chest right below his neck, I went from pissed to laughing in a split second watching him back away from her
btw, she has caught some pretty good whippers and never had a problem holding the belay
I got dropped once in, maybe, my second year climbing. It taught me a very valuable lesson about picking climbing partners, namely that offending somebody is better than dying. Since then I've told countless people, "Thanks, but if you don't mind, I'd rather <he/she> belay for me."
i watched a friend of mine get dropped at rumney this past fall. we were climbing at bonsai and one of his friends from home was belaying him. he had just clipped the lower off bolts at the top and was really pumped from the .10 route... needless to say he clipped the anchors and let go assuming his belayer had him locked off. well he didnt and i watched helplessly as he fell 35 ft to the deck and landed 3 ft in front of me. luckly the rock he landed on was wet so he slipped and landed on his ass otherwise he probably would have shattered his whole right leg. the belayer didnt even have any rope burn on his hand and the climber fell as if he wasnt even attached to a rope meaning that the belayer wasnt even holding onto the rope. we dont climb with him anymore.
Dropped once, in the gym my first year of climbing. Belayer lost control of rope while lowering me with ATC. She never belayed me again.
There is no excuse for dropping someone. I got my hand sucked into the ATC when a much heavier climber fell off an overhang, guess what, I held on anyways. Huge blood blister. I'd rope-burn my fingers to the bone before I'd drop someone, and I expect the same.
three easy pieces is more than one pitch and its a 5.3.most 5.3 slabs have a little bit more space in between the bolts than other, harder routes. that could have something to do with why the bolts are a little bit further apart. if you hit the ground because of an unatentave belayer then thats the belayers fault not the fact that the bolts are far apart. im not saying that every single climb in rumney is completly safe and bolted perfectly. im just saying that most of the routes there were bolted to clip at good stances and have safe falls. unless you clip at your waste and take out more slack tna needed. but then most falls are still safe.
You're actually thinking of Clippety Doo Dah. Three Easy Pieces is 5.11a and the name comes from there being only three clips. Now, a story: My last time at Rumney me and a gentleman I was climbing with for the first time decided to warm up on some of the easier Upper Vader climbs. After a few warmups I decided to get on Three Easy Pieces. We improvised a stick clip for the first bolt which is about 8 or so feet of the ground and the second is about 2 or 3 after that. After failing to clip the second bolt several times I switched with my partner. After falling a few times he decided to try clipping from a much lower stance, which practically ensured he would touch the ground. When he fell I tried to jump back and take in slack but he still touched the ground, not very hard, and not from very high, but still. It was his decision to make and he knew the consequences. There was little I could do except try and take in the excess slack. If I hadn't of done so or worse yet given more slack he might have ended up worse, who knows. Point being that being just attentive isn't enough. The ability to not only give a soft catch but also to try and reduce a fall by taking in slack are skills that have to be learned. Belaying is serious business and a lot of people don't treat it that way.
On another note, one thing I always hate seeing is that pinch-slide method of belaying and in most circumstances I don't see people even locking off their climber at the end of the slide, the just kind of hold it in there hand ready to take in slack. Every person I've ever taught to belay I tell them hands down, lock off the rope as much and as often as possible. I'd be curious to see how many people who've had ground falls had belayers who were belaying with the pinch-slide method or didn't have their climber locked off at the time.
Someone above said "no biggie" about a 10-foot drop...Now, I think that was a gym fall, and probably had some soft landing....But 10 feet is enough to be a serious fall in real life, and nobody should think "oh....what can 10 feet do?"
I saw(well....heard) a woman SCREAMING in agony this season at the Gunks. She had been traversing (unroped) that section in the Uberfall, to the left of Horseman. She probably wasn't more than 10 feet up....
She fell off, I don't want to say what was up with her spotters...there were two guys over there that some people "said" were her spotters, but I don't know if that's the case.
Edit: I forgot to say - it seems she hit her foot on the edge of the bouldering pad as the landing.
Anyway - I was belaying someone on Boston and - my GOD - the intensity of her pain was palable. She was - very, very clearly - in shock, and I could feel my stomach curdling more each time she screamed out "oh my god!" I was imaging what she was seeing, as she was looking at her foot.
I don't know how to describe it medically(there was actually an EMT and some other medical person right there - lucky girl! Gotta love the Gunks). They were describing the injury and were incredibly fascinated..."She had feeling in her foot? Really?" was one thing I remember them saying....
I didn't get a look - I could have,.....and maybe I should have. But I just didn't want to be in the way.
What had happened(in lay person terms) was that her foot fully separated from her leg at that joint. The ranger I talked to said "You could see both boes, the one from the foot, and the one from the leg. It looked like a chicken drumstick end..." He had a sickened look on his face when saying this, even after a full day had passed.
I can't believe what came out of my mouth when he described the injury...but it does still make me chuckle. I said "Really? Wow.....Thank God for skin!"(or her foot would have been completely dismembered from the rest of her body.
(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Feb 16, 2007, 6:13 PM)
Oh by no means do i consider a 10 foot fall something commonplace and not to worry about, i was more meaning to say that nothing bad happened in that situation.
haha! here i am thinking to myself that this guy must not know what hes talking about. what a retard i am sometimes. ok sorry guys i was wrong. i know the dfference between the two clims. although ive never don that route, i know where its located.
(This post was edited by vaness on Feb 16, 2007, 7:02 PM)
I witnessed a near drop one time at the gym. A guy not much heavier than the girl belaying him took a fall on an overhanging route he was familiar with. She got sucked right into the clip and her left hand was sucked into the draw. She never let go with her right hand though and stopped the fall. Unfortunately it ended her climbing for the day.
I haven't had a drop or a near drop, but there is one guy I won't let belay me on lead anymore. I was at the third clip one time and I hear, "dude wait". I was seriously pissed and down climed right way. Lucky for me I was in a gym and wasn't outside on a huge run out. As it turned out his ATC, "looked funny".
Never been drop, and never drop any one, but I do have a little story to tell.
Three years ago, took a friend to climb in the gym. His first time climbing, so we pick something easy. Next to us, a cheery little girl was climbing up as well. When my friend was almost to the top, the little girl past him to the top, and was ready to be lower. Yub, in slow motion, she let go, and pushed back with so much excitment, and fall straigh down (25'~30') on to the pad, bounced off and roll to the bottom of her climb like a broken doll. Needless to say, my poor friend up there look at me with horror refused to be lower, and downclimbed the entire route back down. We found out later, she didn't do her figure 8 correctly. That was the first and last climb of my friend.
The point of the story? To me, it was the belayer's fault, she as an adult didn't check the girl's tie-ins. And these type of things will happen to anyone if they are not careful.
Never say never. Nobody plans on dropping their partner.
While dropping someone is inexcuseable, shit happens.
I disagree. In almost all instances, shit doesn't happen if you are prepared and aware of your circumstances. in only extreme rare cases, that I can't even think of, would I think that dropping someone would not be pilot error.
In reply to:
I didn't vote because none of the answers really fit. I've been dropped once. By a partner who I trusted completely. There were a number of things that contributed to me being dropped and had things not happened as they did mine would have been a near miss too.
What were those things that contributed to it, so that people can learn from it?
haha! here i am thinking to myself that this guy must not know what hes talking about. what a retard i am sometimes. ok sorry guys i was wrong. i know the dfference between the two clims. although ive never don that route, i know where its located.
This thread is for those who have been dropped, not those who do drop. So go make a thread elsewhere.
I heard about a guy who saw somebody else drop his partner's nalgene bottle while one of them was belaying the other (not sure which). Does that count?
You know alot of these stories start with "I got dropped in the gym this one time....", kind of scary realy.
So on to my story, I got dropped in the gym this one time while climbing with someone for the first time. My plan was to see if they would be suitable for a partner to take on a few trip outside and possibly teach them trad so I decided to feel them out by leading a few climbs. At the top of the first climb I looked down, made eye contact and didnt see any slack in the system so I let go. Now, I freely admit that I made the mistake of not getting verbal confirmation that all was well and I could lower so part of the blame lies with me. Once I let go I was in instant freefall, no resistance what so ever so I just tried to get turned away from the wall so I could roll instead of crumple. I fell 35 - 40 ft. and was stopped about 6 ft. from the deck.
Honestly I have no idea exacly what happened because I didnt see it. When asked by a staff member, my belayer said that I let go while they were taking in slack and lost control when I let go. I could tell they felt horrible and I got one hell of a ride out of the deal so I didnt think it was nessacary to put them on trial for there transgressions. We just finished the day out (yes I lead several more routes (and they belayed flawlessly)) and I havent heard from them since. I'm pretty sure they were embarrassed by the whole thing, I would have been.
Leason learned, Communication people, Communication is key.
Also, I've never dropped anyone and never will. Last time I checked I was perfect and didnt make mistakes. From alot of the statements I've read on here alot of you guys are perfectly flawless belaying machines as well. Good for you. Its nice to be perfect isnt it.
Leason learned, Communication people, Communication is key.
Also, I've never dropped anyone and never will. Last time I checked I was perfect and didnt make mistakes. From alot of the statements I've read on here alot of you guys are perfectly flawless belaying machines as well. Good for you. Its nice to be perfect isnt it.
Sure, stir the pot.
But it took you time to reach perfection, right? True for all of us flawless belaying machines. So, the leader, or preferrably a third person, needs to keep an eye on an unfamiliar belayer for a while. Perhaps even by stooping to communication at times when it really shouldn't be required.
Like others have, I'll submit that part of being a flawless belaying machine includes regular self-evaluation.
Some people are saying "Yeah, I got dropped and then caught a few feet from the deck. If you got caught then you didn't get dropped. When I say "WHo's been dropped?", I mean who has been dropped to the ground. There is a BIG difference between taking a longer fall then you should have and then being caught and being dropped to the ground. One is cause for alarm and to take a good hard look at what happened to prevent it in the future. THe other is cause for you to quit climbing before you kill someone.
I just noticed that alot of people were saying that dropping someone (read : making a mistake) is inexcusable and should never happen. In one respect I understand what there saying but it kind of like saying that you should never wreck you car or fall down a set of steps. Yes, I have climb a million steps in my life and I have a pretty damn good grasp on the basics of how gravity works and how to use all my limbs to best resist it. But you know what? Eventualy Im going to trip and bust my ass on a set of stairs and all I can do is hope that it happens on the last two treads and not at the top.
Some people are saying "Yeah, I got dropped and then caught a few feet from the deck. If you got caught then you didn't get dropped. When I say "WHo's been dropped?", I mean who has been dropped to the ground. There is a BIG difference between taking a longer fall then you should have and then being caught and being dropped to the ground. One is cause for alarm and to take a good hard look at what happened to prevent it in the future. THe other is cause for you to quit climbing before you kill someone.
Josh
I kind of wondered how you defined "dropped" but based on the responses I figured you didnt have to deck for it to count. In that case I have never been dropped and am thankful for it.
I did have a near miss(or, more aptly, a near splat) in the gym once.
I was pretty new, and there was this fun route that included a roof crux that I just couldn't pull through. I finally got it, and was so happy for myself. Pulled up to the anchors and said "take."
I heard the "Gotcha" but the rope didn't go taut, and I had slack between me and the anchor rings. I yelled "Take" again, and got a more eexasperated "I heard you. Gotcha."
Thinking maybe my knot was pulled to the rings, and the excess to my harness was what was causing the slack, as had been the case another time, I checked the anchor rings.
Now, it should also be mentioned that the route had taken all I thought I had to give. I was definitely pumped and wanting relief.
So, when I looked at the anchor rings, and saw my knot was NOT pulled against it....I was like "WTF?" Plus, I was starting to sweat and could sort of feel my energy to hold was waning....
I yelled "FUCKING TAKE" and looked down to my belayer. He had a look of "What's WRONG with you?" on his face.....and was holding the gri gri latch WIDE OPEN. With his brake hand on the ripe, above the gri-gri as if ready to feed it through.
Yuh.....
He yelled back, in a nasty, voice "I SAID - I GOT CHA!!!"
Well - the surge of energy that went through my body was incredible. Letting go or falling was no longer an option and I swear my fingers grew Spiderman silk right then and there. Or Gecko suction. Or skyhook talons. Or something. I was on those holds like I'd been epoxied into place and the cement had bonded fully.
But I knew.....that holding was not a permanent solution. I instinctively understood that this was probably not a good time to be explaining how the gri-gri works.....
Instead, I SCREAMED...."LET THE FUCK GO OF THE GRI GRI!!!!"
The guys hands BOTH flew up in the air like a robber hearing "Freeze" and being on the recieving end of a big old gun with a cop not afraid to shoot on the other side.
I dropped off the hodls, the gir-gri caught me.
I am sure I swore a bit, and when the guy asked if he should lower me, I said "NO." By then, the supervisor was on board, and I asked them to make sure he didn't drop me.
I got to the ground, took myslef off rope, and started to stomp off, muttering something like "fuckin' idiot." The guy actually yelled "What's wrong with you? I HAD you!" He insisted he had correctly been handling the devise and my accusations that if I'd come onto the rope I'd have fallen to the ground were untrue. He had no idea.....
(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Feb 17, 2007, 4:32 PM)
haha! here i am thinking to myself that this guy must not know what hes talking about. what a retard i am sometimes. ok sorry guys i was wrong. i know the dfference between the two clims. although ive never don that route, i know where its located.
In 36 years I have never been dropped, and I have never dropped anyone. However, I once inappropriately positioned myself for a belay and caught the leader a few feet off the ground when I should have caught him higher up. We were using double ropes putting the ropes alternately through the protection. It was a vertical wall and I had positioned myself about 25’ from the wall to get in the shade. I did set a directional at the base of the climb so the rope would run vertically. When he fell, there was that small bit of extra time to clamp down that occurs with double ropes. But the big issue was by being so far from the wall, there was extra slack in the system. This combined with the thin rope resulted in the leader stopping just a foot or so off the ground. After he finished castigating me, we discussed what the problem was, and I moved to the base of the wall as he started up again.
A significant percentage of the falls listed in this thread have occurred when climbers are being lowered off from the top of the route. In the outdoors, this very often involves the rope passing through the belay device. But many of the stories related here have occurred indoors. When I teach beginners indoors, I usually climb up a couple of feet on an easy route and say “falling” or “take”. If they catch me OK, I’ll climb up a bit higher and repeat this. I then do it a third time going a bit higher. If they hold me successfully each time, then I’ll repeat the process and but now have them lower me each time.
I’m not sure how one handles the situation with someone you’ve just met and they say they know what they’re doing. The stories here are scary in that regard.
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