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camhead
Oct 4, 2001, 8:05 PM
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Maybe this is an extra big issue for me, as I live in the heart of Mormon Utah where many folks are extra sensitive.
I find that, sometimes, swearing really helps me when I am climbing a hard route. It gets the adreniline, releases built up energy and stress, etc.
However, it is quite common in my area to get yelled at by others at the crag when I cuss. Anyone else? Am I evil? What do you think?
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paulc
Oct 4, 2001, 8:11 PM
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Well, I wouldn't say that cursing helps me climb better, if you need to get something off your chest why don't you try yelling another word, or just scream?
On the other hand I do swear if I am trying a route onsight or for redpoint and blow it when I shouldn't have.
Unless it is excessive I think that people shouldn't bug you about it though.
Paul
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pianomahnn
Oct 4, 2001, 8:23 PM
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I hate to sound like a stuck up prick, but swearing really just shows a lack of education and an inability to choose a word that better suits the situation.
I understand swearing, but I also understand why you shouldn't do it. Respect those around you. It's common courtesy. Just as I would hope you wouldn't swear around kids, I would hope you wouldn't swear around those so opposed to it.
Common courtesy goes a long way, trust me.
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talons05
Oct 4, 2001, 8:57 PM
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Ha ha, I know what you mean. It's hard not to cuss sometimes when in a high stress situation. The thing is, that you need to calm down and conserve your energy and cussing only gets you worked up more. Plus, it's just bad karma.
AW
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pianomahnn
Oct 4, 2001, 8:59 PM
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The words you choose, show what words you know. A high stress situation will not be a catalyst for a swear word. We have merely accustomed ourselves to swearing in those types of situations as opposed to choosing another word, or just a loud yell. If you were to find a new word, and use it everyday in place of a more commonly used word, eventually you would find yourself using the new words as opposed to the old ones. The same would happen with swears. Find other ways to express yourself. Yelling out swears is just tacky.
Besides, a manly roar or grunt is far more impressive to the ladies.
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tyraidbp
Oct 4, 2001, 9:21 PM
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I like this topic. And I have a funny story about cursing infront of a large group. I was at Phoenix, on like my third problem, when a hold broke and I had to sit. It was a roped problem, and I was about three moves from the top. Well, that hold snapped and so did I. I let loose with a roaring F'n HOLD!!! Then looked down towards the ground to see about 30 people all looking up at me. I instantly appologized for my mistake, and for the rest of the day, remained quiet. I think we should all try something. Find a word to replace your favorite swear with(something completely stupid like strawberries or something)then use it everytime you want to swear. Lets all try it and see what happens.
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camhead
Oct 4, 2001, 9:41 PM
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yes, I apologize profusely when I cuss usually. However, the majority of my peers (and maybe it is just because I hang out with the wrong people!) will utter some sort of profane expression when, say, they know they are about to take whipper or something.
I also disagree with the swearing/intelligence matter. I swear pretty frequently in conversation and on the rock, and was also just accepted into a f***ing good grad school with full fellowship (sorry, couldn't resist).
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blackaven
Oct 4, 2001, 9:57 PM
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It's almost impossible to measure a persons intellect, period. I don't believe in IQ tests much and I don't think someone's vocabularly is any indication of thier intelligence. Maybe that person spent more time learning more pratical knowledge (like how to build a car, for example ) rather than reading the thesarus in thier spare time.
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woodse
Oct 4, 2001, 11:10 PM
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Well I agree with some of you folks, there are just as many alternate things to do ie scream, yell, say AAAaahhhh!!! You have to respect everyone when you go out to the rock so even if you weren't in the heart of Mormon country you still should not cuss just out of the respect of others.
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dean585
Oct 4, 2001, 11:13 PM
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yeah I dont agree with the swearing intelligence thing. I had a 3.9 Gpa in college and I swore all the time, but then again tests will do that to you. I think that swearing may show a lact of tact but some of the smartest people i know have sewer mouths. lol : )
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jds100
Oct 4, 2001, 11:21 PM
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I certainly don't assume that a vocabulary that includes swearing indicates education level, nor do I assume that education level indicates value as a person.
That said, I do agree that loosing it, vocally and behaviorly, is -ideally- something to be avoided. For me, it adds to the stress, rather than relieves it. And, of course, sometimes it's not easy (it can be f---in' impossible) to control my every emotion when I'm putting out so much effort. But, again ideally, if you can channel all that pent up energy into the problem, then you might send it. Just try to know what context your climbing in: kids, grandmothers, folk singers, art history teachers, etc.
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climberchk
Oct 4, 2001, 11:35 PM
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Tyraidbp you are so right! Sometimes when I totally pop off a route I'll scream out,"PURPLE MONKEY!" Its a supa fun thing to say. It realives my anger cuz I start laughing so hard. Other things like "Sweet Pea" and "Cottone Candy" are fun to say too
[ This Message was edited by: climberchk on 2001-10-04 16:36 ]
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ecchastang
Oct 4, 2001, 11:40 PM
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I have to agree mostly with pianomahnn. I do not like to be around people who are cussing excessively. Occasionally is o.k., but to me it shows a lack of respect and self control.
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decked
Oct 5, 2001, 12:47 AM
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i think climberchk has a good outlook on it.
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andy_lemon
Oct 5, 2001, 1:12 AM
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I cuss a little at the crags. You get in a hard finger pinching spot and you want to let out... I hear you bro.
I'm sure there are words out there that can be supstituted but since XENO thinks that me and everyone cursing at the crags reflects on our intelligence lets ask him. Xeno, what words, in your opinion, are proper for us to say and not say at the crags? WoW, I can see this is going to turn into an access issue. lol
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daisuke
Oct 5, 2001, 1:26 AM
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I don't cuss all the time or anything like that, but when I'm on a route and I can't hack a move I do curse at it, especially when I know it's just that little bit out of my grasp
only you could say such stuff Jilly
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trillium
Oct 5, 2001, 1:35 AM
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There is nothing that breaks the tension of a group more than hearing some giant muscle-bound bohemian yell something benign and silly while in the throws of climbing agony. Let those creative juices flow!
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jdcox_9
Oct 5, 2001, 1:43 AM
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I do not swear at the crags, and i'm not going to tell others not to(unless I know them to be better then that).
It is sometimes funny to hear someone yell it out. I don't really laugh at the word(s) used, rather i laugh at the person using them. It doesn't do much good to swear at the rock or yourself.
The rock is not going to develope bigger holds or shorter reaches.
And you are not going to develope a skill that you don't already know. If you can't do it, you can't do it. That's it.
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rrrADAM
Oct 5, 2001, 3:41 AM
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I climb at Joshua Tree National Monument, a lot, and have heard many climbers swear loudly when they can't stick a move. I also have heard them swear in front of Grandparents with their Grandkids while they are trying to enjoy the Park. I have even witnessed a Grandfather ask, politely, a cursing climber to, "please don't sear in front of my Grandkids." And the climber's reply to the old man, "f--- you !!!"
I think this is very 'Anti-Access'. I'll bet money that that Grandparent is more likely to write his Congressman concerning issues of Rockclimbing and land management, than is the idiot climber who has no respect for anyone else in the park.
We do not have sole rights to the areas we frequent. Nonclimbers have just as much right to not have their outdoor experienxce ruined as do we. We need to show respect for everone we come in contact with, and we need to act responsibly. Unfortunatly, the general public will judge the whole of us, by the actions of the worst of us. Just as the whole Taliban are judged by the actions of the worst of them.
This is an 'Access Issue', and we need to act apropriately, or we will eventually lose our right to climb on public land, by being viewed as a public nussance.
camhead, here's something to think about...
You stated that you are in Utah. Much of the land in Little Cottonwood Canyon is owned by the Mormon Church, they even have their vaults there under Church Rock. They allow us to climb their, for free. If we become viewed as a problem, what do you think they will do ??? We should be gracious for their generousity, and act with repect. What recourse would we have if they discided to deny acces to climbers because they were offended by our behavior ???
rrrADAM
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2001-10-04 20:55 ]
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wandt
Oct 5, 2001, 5:06 AM
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After having lived and gone to university (for a year) in a Northern BC Forestry town I learned to swear like a lumberjack. A while after getting home I heard someone else swearing profusely, and I found that it did little more than make the person seem uneducated, ill-mannered and generally unintelligent. Totally incapable of stringing together a coherent sentence without cuss words. I resolved to stop swearing, and at this point, except for the occasional string of muttered curses after falling for the umpteenth time, or on the downtown playground (no place for politeness there. Dunk and cuss, or go home.) I have broken the habit. Not only does this give the impression of intelligence, manners and upstanding-citizenship, but when I DO let loose at a deserving individual, the potency is increased tenfold.
So, I'd say that dropping the odd expletive (and PLEASE... make them odd. The usual few are kinda boring. If you swear, swear creatively.) under your breath is fine, but a loud potty-mouth is unwelcome.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." -Mark Twain
[ This Message was edited by: wandt on 2001-10-04 22:43 ]
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rrrADAM
Oct 5, 2001, 5:15 AM
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I've been known to say, "Zoinks !!!" or "Rats !!!".
rrrADAM
p.s. This post is a bunch of " Mutha F---ing StupidA-- C---Sucking BullS--- !!!" (he he he)
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coach
Oct 5, 2001, 1:12 PM
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When I was in the Marine Corps I had a Gunnery SErgeant tell me that "cursing is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate mother*@$r" and I never forgot his wisdom.
Climb On
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russman
Oct 5, 2001, 2:19 PM
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lots of good points made here. I am one that if I am not careful...will let my mouth run off without even knowign it is happening (5 years of college affected me). I have to be real careful now that I am a daddy...little ones are impressionable. One of my all time favorite substitutes is:
FU'CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!
lots of emphasis on the first part. releaves lots of stress and other laugh. I also work in a job where it is easy to let my mouth run off. I do a lot of "manly gruts" and strains. Others laugh, but i know it helps.
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rck_climber
Oct 5, 2001, 3:02 PM
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As a military man, I'm prone to spout off in some "less than formal" ways while climbing. When I'm out w/ my partner in the middle of no where I'll let it fly, but when I'm at the Garden, I've got to keep things pretty curbed because of the number of gapers and kids there.
The key is to remember tolerance in all things: race, religion, personal beliefs and yes, even in speech. If this can be your guiding light, you will be a successful person no matter what. Respect the people around you as best you can and you will reap the benefits of a lifetime.
Mick
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pianomahnn
Oct 5, 2001, 3:48 PM
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I can see everyone has missed my subtle points about the "education" statement. You're stupid if you choose to use words at inoportune times, such as when children, or the Mormons are around. Is you're a smart person, you'll choose your words more wisely, and not get climbers banned from the rocks for being an ignorant moron.
Bah...just be respectful and start using the word Poppycock.
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