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roclimb
May 20, 2004, 5:28 PM
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I know that someone already posted a topic about this but I am restarting one. A site user just deleted my origional post because a made a harmless satirical coment made to be funny. I
get misunderstood sometimes so I will try to be less comical this time and more serious. Hopefully this post will not be deleted also?
Anyway I relisted the area known as Canton PA posted by whenindoubt. I relisted it because it was in the wrong region 250-miles from its actual location. I also posted the appropriate access closure.
Here are a few questions:
Should users be allowed to post access sensitive areas they know nothing about and have never been to?
Should users be allowed to reptedly list areas hours from the actual towns they are in?
Should users be allowed to post areas that are going to make people ask folks and waste time and energy looking for areas hundreds of miles from where they actually are?
This site is only as good as the people who contribute. Pretty soon people will start saying don't look on rc.com for beta cause its all wrong.
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fredrogers
May 20, 2004, 5:36 PM
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Maybe there needs to be a feature in the database where people can put a stamp of approval (or disapproval) about an area. Possibly a voting feature that asks "On a scale of 1-10, how accurate did you find this information?". Poor beta could be looked into by the area managers.
Now, I know what you might say..."If you think the beta sucks - then fix it!" But sometimes people don't have the knowledge or time to fix the beta. But they do know that directions were poor or something similar.
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rrrADAM
May 20, 2004, 5:40 PM
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As stated before many times over, if any info in the RDB is incorrect, we can all click "edit" and make it right. If something needs to be deleted, then contact the State Manager or the RDB Administrator.
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climbinganne
May 20, 2004, 5:48 PM
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good luck rob, i gave up years ago trying to change the pa database
hell, the regions aren't even right
i put new directions to areas after trying to follow the ones that were written...edited them and then a month or so later those old directions were back again...ever try to get to high rocks from the directions posted??? :roll:
anyhow...good luck! :wink:
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boss
May 20, 2004, 5:49 PM
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In reply to: As stated before many times over, if any info in the RDB is incorrect, we can all click "edit" and make it right. If something needs to be deleted, then contact the State Manager or the RDB Administrator.
Amen brother!
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roclimb
May 20, 2004, 6:05 PM
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I guess my point is that whenindoubt obviously has a copy of Climb PA and or Rock N Road. he listed the area Rickets glen as being in Scranton. this area is 70 miles from scranton, rock in road says it is in Red Rock(the correct town). Why not just say it is Red rock when he posts the thing and not Scranton 70-miles away. If he has been to the spot he certainly knows it is not in Scranton.
Same thing with Canton, Canton is in the town of Canton but he listed it a sbeing in Pittsburgh 250-miles away. He did the same thing with 4-other areas.
All I am saying is what is wrong with simply putting the correct town in.
~Rob
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whenindoubtrunitout
May 20, 2004, 6:08 PM
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I second rradam's comment. If there is a mistake... simply correct it. What's the big deal? The area wasn't even in there before. If it is now closed, having the area in there and something stating that it is now closed is even better than not having it in there at all. Now people know it is closed. Access to areas changes over time. Maybe someday the arfea will reopen. If/when that happens it is already in the database and people can update the access situation. You have to start somewhere. I welcome anyone to improve on what I started.
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joel_gibbel
May 20, 2004, 6:16 PM
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Wouldn't it be great if we had a good comprehensive guidebook for PA climbing? Then we wouldn't have to rely on sketchy internet beta all the time. Hey Rob, do you know of anyone who might be able to put something like this together soon?
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mackavus
May 20, 2004, 6:21 PM
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I'll bite...
Ok. In this case I totally side with Rob. I agree with rrrAdam for just about any other place, but I think that PA might be a special case here. The PA database needs some serious work, SERIOUS WORK. There are tons of areas listed with no information at all... sometimes I would like to check out these areas.... but where is it? What is it? Who the hell adds this stuff like this? I really wish that the manager would at least DO SOMETHING about all problems with the PA database... I also would LOVE to see a rating system, just like we rate routes we could rate locales. I think that we should also have a mandatory access issues part of the main page for climbing areas. People are still going to go to places that are closed to climbing (I will confess I have done it in the past) but I think that in a state like PA which has many many areas that are access sensitive, we whould at least be presented with the issues before we unknowingly tresspass where we are not wanted and get in deep shit.
Peace :D
Edited to add more info.
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roclimb
May 20, 2004, 6:33 PM
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Whenindoubtrunitout,
Why did you list the climbing area Canton as being in Pittsburgh and not the town of Canton???????
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jason1
May 20, 2004, 6:43 PM
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deer lake bluff is wrong, too.
also, why post climbing areas that are closed... is it really productive...
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boss
May 20, 2004, 6:45 PM
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In reply to: I'll bite... Ok. In this case I totally side with Rob. I agree with rrrAdam for just about any other place, but I think that PA might be a special case here. The PA database needs some serious work, SERIOUS WORK. There are tons of areas listed with no information at all... sometimes I would like to check out these areas.... but where is it? What is it? Who the hell adds this stuff like this? I really wish that the manager would at least DO SOMETHING about all problems with the PA database... I also would LOVE to see a rating system, just like we rate routes we could rate locales. I think that we should also have a mandatory access issues part of the main page for climbing areas. People are still going to go to places that are closed to climbing (I will confess I have done it in the past) but I think that in a state like PA which has many many areas that are access sensitive, we whould at least be presented with the issues before we unknowingly tresspass where we are not wanted and get in deep s---. Peace :D Edited to add more info.
If you really want to patch up the PA RD or make an effort for a PA guide book, we should get a person from each area and get on it this summer. I'd be more than happy to do the NW, and a guide book of this sort would definitely be sweet.
Boss
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boss
May 20, 2004, 6:51 PM
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In reply to: also, why post climbing areas that are closed... is it really productive...
Historical purposes. Every good guide book or RD should include history on the areas, closed or open. Sure you might get a few people who climb in the closed areas, but you also prevent a lot of people from climbing there as well.
Boss
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whenindoubtrunitout
May 20, 2004, 7:30 PM
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There is nothing wrong with putting a town in that is closer than the one I put in. Go ahead and do it. I simply chose to put a bigger city in that people might be more inclined to know about if they were not from the area.
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mackavus
May 20, 2004, 7:42 PM
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In reply to: There is nothing wrong with putting a town in that is closer than the one I put in. Go ahead and do it. I simply chose to put a bigger city in that people might be more inclined to know about if they were not from the area.
You have also added areas like brickyard quarry with no real description at all? Why did you do that?
Peace.
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whenindoubtrunitout
May 20, 2004, 8:45 PM
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I didn't tell people the precise GPS coordinates of each bolt either. Why would I leave that information out? Get a life.
If you know more info about this area feel free to add that information. The information I provided was a starting point and is accurate. Bottom line.
If the information in the database could be clarified... clarify it.
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Please stop your whining and contribute or go away.
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boss
May 20, 2004, 9:01 PM
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Under this new method of organizing the routes DB, I vote we move Yosemite National Park to the Sacramento area. :lol: :roll:
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whenindoubtrunitout
May 20, 2004, 9:32 PM
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Does anyone out there understand a concept known as continuous improvement?
For those of you who do:
Do you see how Mr. boss's sarcasatic suggestion is contrary to this concept this concept? I jhope so
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mr8615
May 20, 2004, 9:35 PM
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whenindoubt... have you ever been to/climbed in each of the area's you listed? I would suggest to everyone who lists climbing areas in the DB to only list places you have been to and climbed at so you can provide a decent description, rating, town and directions for the area. If you want to list an area from a guide book or one you have never been to, perhaps ask if anyone has been there or has info before posting the area to the DB? I think this would help the problem.
Mark
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whenindoubtrunitout
May 20, 2004, 9:46 PM
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I was climbing in these PA areas before you were born. If you have some new information about them go ahead and update what I put in there and stop your complaining.
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boss
May 20, 2004, 9:58 PM
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A. Relax
B. I'm not trying to start a flamefest
C. From reading the other posts on this page and commenting on continuous improvement...Posting a new area 250mi or 70mi away from it's actual site is not improvement. I can't even mapquest that to get an idea of where I'm going!!! If you are adding something, please at least have something decent to comment on about the area. The PA routes DB is junk right now, why continue to make it worse? IMO you should at least have some sort of quality product or info before releasing it to the public and taking up their time when they bother to browse it.
Boss
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roclimb
May 20, 2004, 10:03 PM
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Tony (whenindoubt),
I'm thinking since its been a long time since you have been to these spots maybee you have forgotten what cities they are near. Like Scranton is a ways fromr Rickets glen but wilkes barre is a very very large city closer.
I guess what I am trying to say is since you live in Salt Lake now you must have forgot exact locations of these areas if it was a long time ago you were there. I can certainly understand that as I have forgotten how close or far places are from spots.
I have to say though that Pitt is no where near Canton, big cities like State College, Altoona, williamsport are all between Pitt and Canton and all those are closer to canton than Pitt.
I suppose if you dont want to contribute more than the name of the area just keep posting them and people on the site will contribute the names, location and directions and cities that are close by. You should remove Canton from the Western PA region though. It is in Central PA, actually sort of close to Eastern PA.
Happy climbing
~Rob :D
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phlsphr
May 20, 2004, 10:27 PM
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In reply to: I suppose if you dont want to contribute more than the name of the area just keep posting them and people on the site will contribute the names, location and directions and cities that are close by. :D
NO!!!
Please don't contribute just a name. Take a look at the climbing area's contributed by runitout. Of 21 areas only 1, City of Rocks, contains any useful information whatsoever. How is that helpful?
I, for one, would like to see all of these useless "contributions" deleted. I will take up rrradam's suggestion and make this request of the state manager and the rdb administrator. Perhaps if enough of us write something will be done about the PA database. However, since this issue has already come up before, I have some doubt whether it will do any good.
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mackavus
May 20, 2004, 11:58 PM
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In reply to: I didn't tell people the precise GPS coordinates of each bolt either. Why would I leave that information out? Get a life.
I think the information that you left out is pretty much a necessity just to find a place.... like uhh..... directions???
In reply to: If you know more info about this area feel free to add that information. The information I provided was a starting point and is accurate.
250 miles is not accurate.
In reply to: If the information in the database could be clarified... clarify it.
I dont think that this should be our job! We could all make it better sure, but why not get it right the first time!
In reply to: You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Please stop your whining and contribute or go away.
I have contributed, go ahead and check. I think that since I have at least provided directions that my contributions are much better than yours. I dont have the time to spend countless hours correcting your shitty locations. Even if I wanted to I couldnt because I CANT FIND ANY OF THE STUFF YOU ADDED DUDE TO LACK OF INFORMATION! :x
This isnt a whine... this is a serious plea to stop adding information to our database... I mean... your not helping anyone or making the dBase better.
Peace.
I swear when I look at what you have done on this site... it makes me wonder if you have just contributed to get some rating points.
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fredrogers
May 21, 2004, 4:53 PM
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I like the idea of continuous improvement, but I agree with most of these people...if you're going to enter a new area into the database then do it right the first time. If you have so little info about a crag that you can't even enter a description...then maybe you're not the best person to be entering that beta. Post stuff that you know intimately and that you have visited recently. Quality...not quantity.
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