Yeah, cause your OP was really a call for an intelligent conversation.

Thanks, but you're banzed anyway. I hereby impose a 2-second banz. That'll learn ya.

Here's the thing troll, peruse the accidents. All of them, gym, sport, bouldering, trad, mountains, etc.

Now where do the most accidents happen? At the inaccessible super hard trad routes? Or on the easily accessible sport and gym routes?

According to the accidents/deaths posted on this site so far for the year 2008:

Traditional Climbing: 25 reports
Sport Climbing: 8 reports
Gym: 3 reports
Rappelling: 14 reports
Soloing: 8 reports
God (avalanches, rockfall, etc): 4 reports
Aid: 2 reports
Top Roping: 1 report
Alpine: 3 reports
Ice Climbing: 4 reports

Maybe it's due to less steps to make mistakes at in sport climbing. I guess the next question would be "How many people climb trad, compared to people who climb sport?" Does anyone know an answer to this? From reading these posts it seems operator error is the most common cause of accident/death.

WTF, why you want to impose your views on someone else? I don't ask you to climb sport. Why the fuck do you think you should be telling others what to do. Seems to me that you suck at climbing faces so you find no use for bolts, which is fine for you, but keep it that way,... to yourself

According to the accidents/deaths posted on this site so far for the year 2008:

Traditional Climbing: 25 reports
Sport Climbing: 8 reports
Gym: 3 reports
Rappelling: 14 reports
Soloing: 8 reports
God (avalanches, rockfall, etc): 4 reports
Aid: 2 reports
Top Roping: 1 report
Alpine: 3 reports
Ice Climbing: 4 reports

Maybe it's due to less steps to make mistakes at in sport climbing. I guess the next question would be "How many people climb trad, compared to people who climb sport?" Does anyone know an answer to this? From reading these posts it seems operator error is the most common cause of accident/death.

Your point of view is IDENTICAL to those who want to chip blank faces...or perhaps worse, it's more like wanting to chip established routes, because you don't want to make the necessary commitment.

About 5-6 were from placement pulling. On the other hand, there was only one report of a bolt breaking.

I'm waiting for the triumphant introduction of your point.

WTF, why you want to impose your views on someone else? I don't ask you to climb sport. Why the fuck do you think you should be telling others what to do. Seems to me that you suck at climbing faces so you find no use for bolts, which is fine for you, but keep it that way,... to yourself. BTW, I hope more people bolt cracks, you rich fucks can fuck yourselves with all your cams, most of us, especially given the times, can't afford a full trad rack. I would love to be able to climb cracks that were bolted, but you fucks have to make it just one more thing that is elitist, I hope BD fucks up and kills you all with a hellacious defect or some shit.

One more thing, I am trying to get a trad rack together, the point is that there is no reason everyone should have to get a full rack in order to climb crack.

Read more of the thread then....

I've read it all. Your point is still missing an introduction as well as triumph.

This is correct.

I would never do such a thing.

I would never do such a thing.

WTF, why you want to impose your views on someone else? I don't ask you to climb sport. Why the fuck do you think you should be telling others what to do. Seems to me that you suck at climbing faces so you find no use for bolts, which is fine for you, but keep it that way,... to yourself. BTW, I hope more people bolt cracks, you rich fucks can fuck yourselves with all your cams, most of us, especially given the times, can't afford a full trad rack. I would love to be able to climb cracks that were bolted, but you fucks have to make it just one more thing that is elitist, I hope BD fucks up and kills you all with a hellacious defect or some shit.

One more thing, I am trying to get a trad rack together, the point is that there is no reason everyone should have to get a full rack in order to climb crack.

According to the accidents/deaths posted on this site so far for the year 2008:

Traditional Climbing: 25 reports
Sport Climbing: 8 reports
Gym: 3 reports
Rappelling: 14 reports
Soloing: 8 reports
God (avalanches, rockfall, etc): 4 reports
Aid: 2 reports
Top Roping: 1 report
Alpine: 3 reports
Ice Climbing: 4 reports

Maybe it's due to less steps to make mistakes at in sport climbing. I guess the next question would be "How many people climb trad, compared to people who climb sport?" Does anyone know an answer to this? From reading these posts it seems operator error is the most common cause of accident/death.

I've read it all. Your point is still missing an introduction as well as triumph.

why you want to impose your views on someone else? I don't ask you to climb sport. Why the fuck do you think you should be telling others what to do.

Oh yeah, I don't want to climb trad near as much as I want to climb cracks. I could care less how I'm protecting myself, so long as it's solid, I just want to climb different types of rock.

No one has a right to be elitist.... I agree with the idea of preserving the rock in it's natural state, but couldn't we just create better guidelines/standards for bolting? Paint the hangers to match, use glue-in's, use existing holes whenever possible... I understand the need for preservation, especially with particularly chossy areas. Garden of The Gods in Colorado Springs is a good example of bolting gone bad. The rock is mangled in spots. I understand prohibiting bolting in areas like this. There are however lots of areas with very solid rock where if you put painted hangers/glue-ins in the rock, you wouldn't see them unless right next to them.

I commonly find lines that you can't protect or TR, that would actually make great routes. Only thing stopping me is people who think trad climbing is the only way we should be able to climb. I am for equal access, if we have the technology to make climbing safer and more accessible to people then why not use it. Just because some dinosaur had to run his pieces out 20 feet doesn't mean I should have to. All the time on this forum people want to go and talk about "learn this/that from this/that accident/death" Why not take measures to make this sport as safe as possible?

And as far as climbing bolted crack,... I can get that done at Shelf Road.

I just appreciate the idea of diversity, I like choices. He made a very valid point:


I couldn't agree more.

I would only put up bolts on new routes (with proper research into ethics/regulation) or to replace old/outdated hardware on existing routes (once again talking to the people who are currently in charge of that for the area). I would never bolt a crack.

According to the accidents/deaths posted on this site so far for the year 2008:

Traditional Climbing: 25 reports
Sport Climbing: 8 reports
Gym: 3 reports
Rappelling: 14 reports
Soloing: 8 reports
God (avalanches, rockfall, etc): 4 reports
Aid: 2 reports
Top Roping: 1 report
Alpine: 3 reports
Ice Climbing: 4 reports

Maybe it's due to less steps to make mistakes at in sport climbing. I guess the next question would be "How many people climb trad, compared to people who climb sport?" Does anyone know an answer to this? From reading these posts it seems operator error is the most common cause of accident/death.



WHOO HOO Obama WON!!!!!

According to the accidents/deaths posted on this site so far for the year 2008:

Traditional Climbing: 25 reports
Sport Climbing: 8 reports
Gym: 3 reports
Rappelling: 14 reports
Soloing: 8 reports
God (avalanches, rockfall, etc): 4 reports
Aid: 2 reports
Top Roping: 1 report
Alpine: 3 reports
Ice Climbing: 4 reports

Maybe it's due to less steps to make mistakes at in sport climbing. I guess the next question would be "How many people climb trad, compared to people who climb sport?" Does anyone know an answer to this? From reading these posts it seems operator error is the most common cause of accident/death.

This is basically what I intended to say. If you don't like it then don't read it. If you don't get it, try reading it again, perhaps it will hit you eventually.

Have fun climbing, and be safe.

Did you get it yet? Don't bolt cracks, or the tribe will jump you, and beat you savagely.

I offer you a challenge, before you bolt cracks, learn to climb trad for at least 3 years. BTW, you don't need to own a rack to accomplish this, just climb with other people.