|
feanor007
Jun 14, 2006, 10:00 PM
Post #27 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 7, 2004
Posts: 377
|
In reply to: y is it ok to advertise directions to every other rock climbing site in the world, except this one? What is special about this site? Is it that it is elitist and only a few special people should be there? Why should we not tell everyone of course, everywhere i climb is posted online, in fact i'd wager that every single climbing route in the entire world is and should be on this most holy of websites. further more, if you dare climb somewhere that isn't and you don't fling wide the gates of this new oasis on this blessed beacon of truth in cybewspace immediatly, the mods will ban you...from life, it's in the TOS, i swear.
|
|
|
|
|
fernregan
Jun 14, 2006, 10:46 PM
Post #28 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 56
|
Central PA climbing areas: 1) greasy limestone bellefonte quarry (status? access fund???) 2) donation rocks 3) hunters rock ITS NO WONDER HUNTERS IS KEPT A SECRET. LOOK WHAT THEY'VE GOT TO CHOOSE FROM. Bytheway, is the BigBoy head still hidden in the woods along the road to Hunters?
|
|
|
|
|
organic
Jun 14, 2006, 11:28 PM
Post #29 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 16, 2003
Posts: 2215
|
I don't know. It is funny how the people who want to keep climbing areas so sacred and private are the ones who hack out trails, clean off boulders, &c. I have been climbing in So. Ill. for about 2 years now and we have a "secret crag" called the Holy Boulders that probably most climbers on this website have heard of. It has been written about in numerous articles in climbing magazines, is in climbing videos and you know what? There is probably no more traffic there then there was before that stuff. yeah ocassionally there is a group 10 people out there but honestly it is very rare. Most all the people who go out there are a few locals. Keeping an area secret just gets is mossy and undeveloped. No one wants to go out to these areas anyway wthout someone else because no one except a select few locals really know what any problems are. I know the chump who originally posted this thread is going about it the wrong way but he is right. No, matter how much you enjoy the seclusion of an area you are being selfish by wanting to keep it all to yourself. Climbing is about people and enjoying nature together. If you want to go out into the middle of nowhere and look at deer come to Southern Illinois we see them on campus and everyday while driving.
|
|
|
|
|
mburke225
Jun 14, 2006, 11:36 PM
Post #30 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2004
Posts: 119
|
Edited becuase I had read thespiders comment wrong
|
|
|
|
|
fixednut
Jun 15, 2006, 12:53 AM
Post #31 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2004
Posts: 509
|
In reply to: i've brought a few people to hunter's I'm having you arrested. :twisted:
|
|
|
|
|
jason1
Jun 15, 2006, 1:54 AM
Post #32 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2002
Posts: 158
|
directions are up....
|
|
|
|
|
thespider
Jun 15, 2006, 12:59 PM
Post #33 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 471
|
In reply to: In reply to: I would love to run into the land owner. I would demand he call the police, I would demand a survey done. I would demand a lot of things to prove my case. i'm sure you would. do you truly realize what you're asking for? making "demands" is your perogative, just be prepared for the repercussions effected upon you by those you are making them to, as well as those from the community-at-large. Am I wrong to assume that the local government does mark property lines? Am I wrong in wanting to know where the property line is? In my Business Law Class (3 years ago) we were told that all laws have to be published. Is it different than land? Am I right to assume that the land owner would rather me know the boundary then me not knowing it? How does it make sense to enforce a law that no one knows? It's like a Simpsons episode where they run out of criminals and they have to arrest men who were not wearing hats. No one know where to wear a hat and where not to, and that's not fair. It's fair to to know where the boundary line is.
In reply to: and, seriously, "demand a survey done?" who's going to pay for that resource? It is paid for by someone. Either the local government or the land owner. I believe if I ask someone to help me figure out where the property line is, they will. I may just be idealistic in thinking so, but I want to think that the government will help settle a land dispute. Lets just boil this down to 2 land owners with a dispute over where their property line is. Who would help figure it out, who would they turn to? My first guess is the courthouse for land surveys. I may also contact the local forestry service and see if they have any topos of the area that would tell me. In this particular case I will ask the local forestry people to walk the property line with me so I can see where it is. If I find out that the property line does not run through Hunters, I will publish that. If I find it does, I will publish where it actually is. That's all I want, concrete proof of where it is. As the first poster said:
In reply to: MYTHBUSTERS!!!
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jun 15, 2006, 2:59 PM
Post #34 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
In reply to: No, matter how much you enjoy the seclusion of an area you are being selfish by wanting to keep it all to yourself. Climbing is about people and enjoying nature together. If you want to go out into the middle of nowhere and look at deer come to Southern Illinois we see them on campus and everyday while driving. Like I said, I am truly a beastiality loving tree-hugger. I am not debating secluded sacred areas, and am not advocating the secret society for the society of secret climbing areas. I have to deal with the crap of secret crags in Mass already. Its an entirely different situation (bolt war) that keeps them secret. All I was countering from the original post is: USE COMMON SENSE, DON'T ABUSE A RESOURCE, EXERCISE PRUDENCE, Don't piss off the actual land owner, OR an adjacent land owner. Sure spider its your god-given right to go piss him off, and spit at him from your side of the line at the rocks. But that is a piss-poor ignorant attitude. Try working with your neighbors, instead of tromping in there and smashing a culture you don't even understand to remove a dictator you don't like who sits on oil and may or may not have weapons of mass destruction. (a better reason is to crush a genocidal maniac :D ) I'm a republican, I have a home gym, I've written guidebooks, I've given directions, I've trespassed, I've even climbed with a crowd. I just feel the situation calls for a non-stereotypical American attitude, one of respect, instead of a Rambo-kungfu style, strip mining, clear-cutting balls to the wall arrogant show-down between man and beast. just use some COMMON SENSE and maybe some RESPECT!
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jun 15, 2006, 3:28 PM
Post #35 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
Oh, this conversation has turned me off of online discussions for good. I am going to play sudoku or something to waste time at work. Have fun climbing. Destroy the area (or access) or don't. My liberal, tree-hugging, cookie eating, elitist, anti-social, republican, unleashed dog-owning, alcoholic, irreverant, omnipotent, self-proclaimed god, beastiality indulging, V15 climbing, loud, obnoxious, american self is signing out. If you know the secret handshake, I'll even PM you directions. I just won't post them.
|
|
|
|
|
thespider
Jun 15, 2006, 3:33 PM
Post #36 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 471
|
In reply to: In reply to: No, matter how much you enjoy the seclusion of an area you are being selfish by wanting to keep it all to yourself. Climbing is about people and enjoying nature together. If you want to go out into the middle of nowhere and look at deer come to Southern Illinois we see them on campus and everyday while driving. Like I said, I am truly a beastiality loving tree-hugger. I am not debating secluded sacred areas, and am not advocating the secret society for the society of secret climbing areas. I have to deal with the crap of secret crags in Mass already. Its an entirely different situation (bolt war) that keeps them secret. Good, then lets let that part go and have a civilized argument on the remaining issue. Where does bestiality fit in there?
In reply to: All I was countering from the original post is: USE COMMON SENSE, DON'T ABUSE A RESOURCE, EXERCISE PRUDENCE, Don't piss off the actual land owner, OR an adjacent land owner. I agree to use common sense, don't abuse a resource. But that has nothing to do with the adjacent land owner. It does matter where the land ends though. I don't want to trespass, I don't want to agree to trespass, but I have, and will if necessary.
In reply to: Sure spider its your god-given right to go piss him off, and spit at him from your side of the line at the rocks. But that is a piss-poor ignorant attitude. Try working with your neighbors, instead of tromping in there and smashing a culture you don't even understand to remove a dictator you don't like who sits on oil and may or may not have weapons of mass destruction. (a better reason is to crush a genocidal maniac :D ) First, let me clear some things up, I don't want to piss anyone off. I don't want to spit at anyone from anywhere. I want to work with the land owner to agree on a specified area for the property line. But I also do not want to be pushed around by the land owner. I want to know where his land ends and where state forest starts. I think thats the fairest thing to do for both sides. If I am "smashing" any culture, it's this rock climbing site's culture. Not the land owners, not the state forest bureau. I should also mention that this is a natural area not for climbers as much as for back packers and botanists, and bird watching. There is a rare flower that is protected by this natural area boundary. Now if the land owner denies access to his land, it's denied for climbers, backpackers, botanists, and bird watchers. The botanists would not be able to see their "Puttyroot" or "Pennywort" flower. Bird watchers would not be able to see the Warblers. The Link trail guides hikers right to hunters as a nice natural area to visit on the way through.
In reply to: I'm a republican, I have a home gym, I've written guidebooks, I've given directions, I've trespassed, I've even climbed with a crowd. I just feel the situation calls for a non-stereotypical American attitude, one of respect, instead of a Rambo-kungfu style, strip mining, clear-cutting balls to the wall arrogant show-down between man and beast. just use some COMMON SENSE and maybe some RESPECT! So am I the man or the beast? It would seem to me that the only arrogant show-down I have been involved in is right in this thread! So, maybe you can show some common sense and respect to the other climbers, backpackers, botanists, and bird watchers.
|
|
|
|
|
thespider
Jun 15, 2006, 3:43 PM
Post #37 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 471
|
In reply to: Oh, this conversation has turned me off of online discussions for good. I am going to play sudoku or something to waste time at work. How does that turn you off online disscusions forever? This is the best part of online discussions, the Argument!
In reply to: Have fun climbing. Destroy the area (or access) or don't. I will have fun climbing, and I will try not to destroy any area or access, only define it.
In reply to: My liberal, tree-hugging, cookie eating, elitist, anti-social, republican, unleashed dog-owning, alcoholic, irreverant, omnipotent, self-proclaimed god, beastiality indulging, V15 climbing, loud, obnoxious, american self is signing out. If you know the secret handshake, I'll even PM you directions. I just won't post them.
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jun 15, 2006, 3:49 PM
Post #38 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
The only people I've seen there are climbers and beer drinking teens. Not saying that all climbers do this, but many of the pink lady slippers, puffballs and other rare plants I have seen have been stepped on or squashed by crashpads. Draw that property line. Get into a dispute. When the dust settles, stay off of his boulders (the majority of the main area). Make sure you paint a white line one foot thick across the rock. I hope it runs through Petunia so you can only climb the start. Remember, once you draw that line, you'll be violating his rights if you put one of your finger tips on his slopers. Invite 1000 people to the public land. Announce directions in a full page ad of the Daily Collegian. Just make sure your droves of people stay off his land as you wish. It's the only fair thing as you said. The public can use their land, and he can say don't climb on my rocks (with a shotgun).
|
|
|
|
|
thespider
Jun 15, 2006, 3:54 PM
Post #39 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 471
|
Finally your seeing the picture! That should be exactly how it's done.
In reply to: The only people I've seen there are climbers and beer drinking teens. Not saying that all climbers do this, but many of the pink lady slippers, puffballs and other rare plants I have seen have been stepped on or squashed by crashpads. Draw that property line. Get into a dispute. When the dust settles, stay off of his boulders (the majority of the main area). Make sure you paint a white line one foot thick across the rock. I hope it runs through Petunia so you can only climb the start. Remember, once you draw that line, you'll be violating his rights if you put one of your finger tips on his slopers. Invite 1000 people to the public land. Announce directions in a full page ad of the Daily Collegian. Just make sure your droves of people stay off his land as you wish. It's the only fair thing as you said. The public can use their land, and he can say don't climb on my rocks (with a shotgun).
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jun 15, 2006, 4:05 PM
Post #40 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
Yeh, I know. We should just cut off access for anyone else who ever wanted to climb the main area. I'm sure the developers back in the 50's wanted it that way. I was so silly to want to try to preserve access to the privately owned main area. F--- that! I like to get into land disputes and use my rights to frustrate the neighbors! Sweet! Now I can climb as much rock as I want in the sparse public land adjacent to the main area!
|
|
|
|
|
thespider
Jun 15, 2006, 4:45 PM
Post #41 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 471
|
In reply to: Yeh, I know. We should just cut off access for anyone else who ever wanted to climb the main area. I'm sure the developers back in the 50's wanted it that way. I was so silly to want to try to preserve access to the privately owned main area. F--- that! I like to get into land disputes and use my rights to frustrate the neighbors! Sweet! Now I can climb as much rock as I want in the sparse public land adjacent to the main area! Look, just because we figure out where the property line runs, doesn't mean no one can cross it. Lets assume that the property line cuts the entire rock structure off, then everyone trespasses to it. That's still not my argument. My argument is that no one knows for sure. There are conflicting stories. And even if the entire rock climbing section is cut off, that does not mean that botanists, bird watchers or rock climbers can't use the other sections to the right. They still can, and I'm sure they will. I don't agree with the camping and camp fires in the natural area, but I do agree with being able to go there. It is the individuals prerogative to trespassing or not. I just think that posting the directions to the parking lot (which is definitely public) is the right thing to do. No one can stop people from trespassing, short of camping out on the boundary line 24/7 to watch, and I don't think anyone will do that. We will just have to wait and see if it is public or private. Either way, everything to the right is public and should be enjoyed by everyone. Posting directions is the only way to be fair. I'll apologize right now for any idiots that decide to destroy any terrain or trespass. However, I will not apologize for trying to figure out where that line is. If someone is caught, let the cops handle it, we are not the guardians of Hunters, nor will we ever be. We can be mentors and try to encourage people to respect boundaries and wildlife. I hope that we will.
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jun 15, 2006, 5:51 PM
Post #42 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
I think it was good as it was, people got directions in a discreet way (PM's or word of mouth). Nobody is getting the "adjacent" land-owner involved and ruffling his feathers. A survey will get him involved. Why go through all this, when you can just exercise prudence like people have done since the 1950's? 50 years of doing it the easy way sounds good to me. I got directions, you got directions, others will get them. If two stooges like myself and you can get there and not piss anyone off, it sounds like a good system.
|
|
|
|
|
jason1
Jun 15, 2006, 6:00 PM
Post #43 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2002
Posts: 158
|
did the crimper break off the top of standad american accent?
|
|
|
|
|
thespider
Jun 15, 2006, 6:15 PM
Post #44 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 471
|
In reply to: I think it was good as it was, people got directions in a discreet way (PM's or word of mouth). Nobody is getting the "adjacent" land-owner involved and ruffling his feathers. A survey will get him involved. Why go through all this, when you can just exercise prudence like people have done since the 1950's? 50 years of doing it the easy way sounds good to me. I got directions, you got directions, others will get them. If two stooges like myself and you can get there and not piss anyone off, it sounds like a good system. We did get there, and we didn't piss anyone off. But why can't we just post the directions? Is rockclimbing.com not discreet enough. I don't think we need to send a full page spread to the centre daily times to tell the whole world. But I think we can tell the entire rockclimbing.com community. I disagree with having to make a friend before getting directions. I don't know when the last time you were in application outdoors, but they will NOT give directions to you. They are the nazi's who are keeping the local clique to themselves. I think that we should post the directions for this community, it is open to the world, but only the people who are looking will find it. I don't know, I'm starting to get burnt out on the topic, and we both have valid points. I just hope we can figure out whats private and whats public without a large battle.
|
|
|
|
|
mackavus
Jun 15, 2006, 6:39 PM
Post #45 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 14, 2002
Posts: 322
|
In reply to: did the crimper break off the top of standad american accent? I dont know as I havent been there in a while, but remember when we did this whole shit-storm thing like 2 years ago? It's almost exactly the same. This is totally wild!
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jun 15, 2006, 6:44 PM
Post #46 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
In reply to: In reply to: did the crimper break off the top of standad american accent? I dont know as I havent been there in a while, but remember when we did this whole s----storm thing like 2 years ago? It's almost exactly the same. This is totally wild! Yeh, I checked that out this morning, fun! I'm done though, individuals will do what they want.
|
|
|
|
|
thespider
Jun 15, 2006, 6:56 PM
Post #48 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 471
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: did the crimper break off the top of standad american accent? I dont know as I havent been there in a while, but remember when we did this whole s----storm thing like 2 years ago? It's almost exactly the same. This is totally wild! Yeh, I checked that out this morning, fun! I'm done though, individuals will do what they want. So you went out this morning? Why do you think that people keep ripping off the Private property signs? Who is it? Do you think that the signs cross abruptly at the top of the hill? Did you see the posted sign at the right once you reach the opening/fire pit? Does it look like it's running in a strait line to you? Did you see any deer?
|
|
|
|
|
thespider
Jun 15, 2006, 6:58 PM
Post #49 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 471
|
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: did the crimper break off the top of standad american accent? I dont know as I havent been there in a while, but remember when we did this whole s----storm thing like 2 years ago? It's almost exactly the same. This is totally wild! Yeh, I checked that out this morning, fun! I'm done though, individuals will do what they want. So you went out this morning? Why do you think that people keep ripping off the Private property signs? Who is it? Do you think that the signs cross abruptly at the top of the hill? Did you see the posted sign at the right once you reach the opening/fire pit? Does it look like it's running in a strait line to you? Did you see any deer?
|
|
|
|
|
jrathfon
Jun 15, 2006, 7:07 PM
Post #50 of 130
(10330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2006
Posts: 494
|
In reply to: In reply to: did the crimper break off the top of standad american accent? I dont know as I havent been there in a while, but remember when we did this whole s----storm thing like 2 years ago? It's almost exactly the same. This is totally wild! Yeh, I checked this discussion: http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=794496#794496 out this morning, FUN! I'm in Western Mass, the drive to Hunter's is a little far. I think I may go to Rumney or Lincoln Woods though.... sniff
|
|
|
|
|
|