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macherry
Mar 7, 2011, 6:06 PM
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marc801 wrote: lena_chita wrote: That is a typical example of something that is technically vegetarian, but probably just as bad for you, if not worse, than the real bacon would be. Remember that breaded, deep-fried vegetables slathered with mayo or melted cheese are vegetarian as well. A serving of McDonald's oatmeal (with cream and sugar) contains 290 calories - a McDonald's cheeseburger contains....300. There are numerous other examples.
i have a friend who is a chubby vegetarian. the last time i saw him, he was eating deep fried mozzarella sticks.
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saint_john
Mar 7, 2011, 6:08 PM
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In reply to: A serving of McDonald's oatmeal (with cream and sugar) contains 290 calories - a McDonald's cheeseburger contains....300. There are numerous other examples.
thats a good point. getting the required amount of protein from a veg diet means that you're also consuming tons of carbs.
example: a sugar-free peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread can have 20 grams of protein but also has almost 500 calories.
3 large eggs have 20 grams of protein at around 220 calories.
in other words, if you're going vegan prepare to do a lot of cardio
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saint_john
Mar 7, 2011, 6:14 PM
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In reply to: i have a friend who is a chubby vegetarian. the last time i saw him, he was eating deep fried mozzarella sticks.
i know a few overweight vegetarians too. Sugar and cheese are their downfalls.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Mar 7, 2011, 6:21 PM
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macherry wrote: Actually, since wine and beer must be made with yeast, you wouldn't drink them on that basis alone (if you're psychotic about being vegan).
If you're going to go to all the trouble of being vegan then one would think you'd buy beer that wasn't 'manufactured' with so many adjuncts.
I don't understand why vegans couldn't eat yeast.
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jt512
Mar 7, 2011, 6:23 PM
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saint_john wrote: In reply to: A serving of McDonald's oatmeal (with cream and sugar) contains 290 calories - a McDonald's cheeseburger contains....300. There are numerous other examples. thats a good point. getting the required amount of protein from a veg diet means that you're also consuming tons of carbs. example: a sugar-free peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread can have 20 grams of protein but also has almost 500 calories. 3 large eggs have 20 grams of protein at around 220 calories. in other words, if you're going vegan prepare to do a lot of cardio
You don't know what you're talking about. Vegans on average are leaner than either omnivores or ovo-lacto-vegetarians.
Jay
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Gmburns2000
Mar 7, 2011, 6:25 PM
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I eat a lot of fish, which is one of the healthiest things one can eat. I do eat other kinds of meat, but mostly because I like the taste (especially lamb and duck....oh god, so good!), not out of any kind of dietary regiment. I don't eat a lot of meat other than fish, however. I eat fish probably two-four times per week and other kinds of meat probably 2-4 per month.
I have found that fruits and vegetables keep me feeling pretty energetic throughout the day if I'm eating them on a regular basis. However, I feel as if I lack energy over the long term without adding meat into my diet. I am susceptible to getting sick when I lose energy over the long term, so keeping my diet balanced is pretty important to my overall health.
The thing that kills me is the junk food. I never eat fast food, but man do I like cookies and yellow cake.
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macherry
Mar 7, 2011, 6:28 PM
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: macherry wrote: Actually, since wine and beer must be made with yeast, you wouldn't drink them on that basis alone (if you're psychotic about being vegan). If you're going to go to all the trouble of being vegan then one would think you'd buy beer that wasn't 'manufactured' with so many adjuncts. I don't understand why vegans couldn't eat yeast.
jesus christ, get your quotes right. i'm a beer drinker, through and through, and not a vegan.
marc01 posted this.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Mar 7, 2011, 6:31 PM
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Saint John wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: macherry wrote: Actually, since wine and beer must be made with yeast, you wouldn't drink them on that basis alone (if you're psychotic about being vegan). If you're going to go to all the trouble of being vegan then one would think you'd buy beer that wasn't 'manufactured' with so many adjuncts. I don't understand why vegans couldn't eat yeast. jesus christ, get your quotes right. i'm a beer drinker, through and through, and not a vegan. marc01 posted this.
I'm reporting this belligerent and probably drunken attack!
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macherry
Mar 7, 2011, 6:38 PM
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: Saint John wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: macherry wrote: Actually, since wine and beer must be made with yeast, you wouldn't drink them on that basis alone (if you're psychotic about being vegan). If you're going to go to all the trouble of being vegan then one would think you'd buy beer that wasn't 'manufactured' with so many adjuncts. I don't understand why vegans couldn't eat yeast. jesus christ, get your quotes right. i'm a beer drinker, through and through, and not a vegan. marc01 posted this. I'm reporting this belligerent and probably drunken attack!
you can't, i'm a greenie
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Arrogant_Bastard
Mar 7, 2011, 6:44 PM
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Climbs4fun wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: Saint John wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: macherry wrote: Actually, since wine and beer must be made with yeast, you wouldn't drink them on that basis alone (if you're psychotic about being vegan). If you're going to go to all the trouble of being vegan then one would think you'd buy beer that wasn't 'manufactured' with so many adjuncts. I don't understand why vegans couldn't eat yeast. jesus christ, get your quotes right. i'm a beer drinker, through and through, and not a vegan. marc01 posted this. I'm reporting this belligerent and probably drunken attack! you can't, i'm a greenie
Come see the violence inherent in the system!
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milesenoell
Mar 7, 2011, 6:52 PM
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enigma wrote: Before the Ice Age humans didn't eat meat, and we ate mostly a vegetarian diet, afterwards we ate meat, when vegetation wasn't readily available. In reply to: In addition monkeys and apes are excellent climbers and exist on vegetarian diet unless there is survival need for them to eat meat.
Monkeys are indeed adept climbers, but our side of the family tree, the great apes, not so much. Our closest relatives, the chimpanzees and bonobos, are not skilled climbers. They also aren't vegetarians, but that was already pointed out.
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xtrmecat
Mar 7, 2011, 7:01 PM
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lena_chita wrote: macherry wrote: for the most part, i follow the michael pollan rule, "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." i don't do dairy, other than a small bit of cheese because it makes me feel like crap. i try to shop locally, and never eat fast food, and keep the crap junk food out of the house. i could never give up my murphy's stout +1, except for the murphy's stout part. I have experimented with being vegetarian for a while. I have tried giving up all gluten foods and dairy for a month when I was helping a friend transition to gluten-free dairy-free diet. I can honestly say that I have never felt any different, regardless of what I was eating. I have always eat healthily, following seasonal diet, more or less, with big emphasis on fresh and local fruits and veggies, and local organic meat, dairy and eggs. But I have never felt any different when I had given up meat, or dairy, or anything else. I've never had any stomachaches, headaches, bloating, heartburn, flatulence, or any other symptoms that people commonly cite as being affected by their food choices. And without seeing a shred of evidence that the foods I eat are bad for me, I enjoy eating a variety of good foods too much to give up anything in particular.
I also have done as above, with the exact same results. My little experiment was around four months though.
Burly Bob
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saint_john
Mar 7, 2011, 7:11 PM
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jt512 wrote: saint_john wrote: In reply to: A serving of McDonald's oatmeal (with cream and sugar) contains 290 calories - a McDonald's cheeseburger contains....300. There are numerous other examples. thats a good point. getting the required amount of protein from a veg diet means that you're also consuming tons of carbs. example: a sugar-free peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread can have 20 grams of protein but also has almost 500 calories. 3 large eggs have 20 grams of protein at around 220 calories. in other words, if you're going vegan prepare to do a lot of cardio You don't know what you're talking about. Vegans on average are leaner than either omnivores or ovo-lacto-vegetarians. Jay
Simmer down Jay. My point was that with a veg diet, protein and carbs go hand in hand as opposed to meat wich is protein without carbs.
of course vegans are leaner on average than omnivores. the average vegan is an extremely health conscious person. the average omnivore doesn't give a fuck.
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Lbrombach
Mar 7, 2011, 7:27 PM
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I'm vegetarian 94.4% of the time...that is- since I only eat meat 3 or 4 times/day, and it only takes me 20 or so minutes to eat, there are roughly 22.66 hours/day that I'm not consuming animal products. If giving up meat 94.4% of the time didn't improve my climbing, I'm pretty sure eliminating that last 5.6 % of the time won't make me any better either.
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jt512
Mar 7, 2011, 7:29 PM
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saint_john wrote: jt512 wrote: saint_john wrote: In reply to: A serving of McDonald's oatmeal (with cream and sugar) contains 290 calories - a McDonald's cheeseburger contains....300. There are numerous other examples. thats a good point. getting the required amount of protein from a veg diet means that you're also consuming tons of carbs. example: a sugar-free peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread can have 20 grams of protein but also has almost 500 calories. 3 large eggs have 20 grams of protein at around 220 calories. in other words, if you're going vegan prepare to do a lot of cardio You don't know what you're talking about. Vegans on average are leaner than either omnivores or ovo-lacto-vegetarians. Jay Simmer down Jay. My point was that with a veg diet, protein and carbs go hand in hand as opposed to meat wich is protein without carbs. of course vegans are leaner on average than omnivores. the average vegan is an extremely health conscious person. the average omnivore doesn't give a fuck.
You still don't know what you're talking about. You still think "carbs" make you fat, which is untrue; you still think that in order to get sufficient protein on a vegan diet you have to consume "a ton of carbs," which is untrue; you still don't understand that vegan diets tend to be slimming, because they are less energy dense than omnivore diets (ie, they contain more fiber and less fat); and basically you're still talking out your ass on a topic you know nothing about.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 7, 2011, 7:30 PM)
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Arrogant_Bastard
Mar 7, 2011, 7:33 PM
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Lbrombach wrote: I'm vegetarian 94.4% of the time...that is- since I only eat meat 3 or 4 times/day, and it only takes me 20 or so minutes to eat, there are roughly 22.66 hours/day that I'm not consuming animal products. If giving up meat 94.4% of the time didn't improve my climbing, I'm pretty sure eliminating that last 5.6 % of the time won't make me any better either.
If you eat meat 3 or 4 times a day your body is pretty much always consuming meat.
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marc801
Mar 7, 2011, 7:35 PM
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: Marc801 wrote: Actually, since wine and beer must be made with yeast, you wouldn't drink them on that basis alone (if you're psychotic about being vegan). If you're going to go to all the trouble of being vegan then one would think you'd buy beer that wasn't 'manufactured' with so many adjuncts. I don't understand why vegans couldn't eat yeast.
That was a jab at some clueless vegans I've met. Shocking as it may seem, I've met some poorly educated vegans who think that yeasts are actually from the animal kingdom. The first time I just thought it was an outlier more than 3 standard deviations from the mean...then I met two more. Maybe they took the meme of "drinking yeast piss and burping yeast farts" when you drink beer too literally. Hence my use of "psychotic".
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Arrogant_Bastard
Mar 7, 2011, 7:43 PM
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marc801 wrote: Shocking as it may seem, I've met some poorly educated vegans...
Nope, not shocked in the least.
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chadnsc
Mar 7, 2011, 7:49 PM
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saint_john wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: I eat sugar, drink coffee, eat meat... And I am pretty sure that giving up on all those won't get me climbing harder. If you lose weight if might.
If you didn't cheese your quote we could understand you better fatty. 
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wonderwoman
Mar 7, 2011, 7:52 PM
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kaizen wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: I eat a lot of fish, which is one of the healthiest things one can eat. While I agree that fish is really healthy and tasty, be careful not to eat tuna, swordfish, and other large fish species with great regularity. Courtesy of bioaccumulation, they can contain a ton of mercury, which can really fuck you up. Jeremy Piven is a good example.
Not to mention that farm raised fish have higher levels of dioxins & other toxicants due to their 'feed'. They really only warn pregnant women / women of childbearing age & children about the Hg levels in predator fish due to potentially harming brain development. But you're right. Mercury isn't really good for anybody.
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chadnsc
Mar 7, 2011, 7:52 PM
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jt512 wrote: saint_john wrote: jt512 wrote: saint_john wrote: In reply to: A serving of McDonald's oatmeal (with cream and sugar) contains 290 calories - a McDonald's cheeseburger contains....300. There are numerous other examples. thats a good point. getting the required amount of protein from a veg diet means that you're also consuming tons of carbs. example: a sugar-free peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread can have 20 grams of protein but also has almost 500 calories. 3 large eggs have 20 grams of protein at around 220 calories. in other words, if you're going vegan prepare to do a lot of cardio You don't know what you're talking about. Vegans on average are leaner than either omnivores or ovo-lacto-vegetarians. Jay Simmer down Jay. My point was that with a veg diet, protein and carbs go hand in hand as opposed to meat wich is protein without carbs. of course vegans are leaner on average than omnivores. the average vegan is an extremely health conscious person. the average omnivore doesn't give a fuck. You still don't know what you're talking about. You still think "carbs" make you fat, which is untrue; you still think that in order to get sufficient protein on a vegan diet you have to consume "a ton of carbs," which is untrue; you still don't understand that vegan diets tend to be slimming, because they are less energy dense than omnivore diets (ie, they contain more fiber and less fat); and basically you're still talking out your ass on a topic you know nothing about. Jay
I'd listen to Jay on this one, I mean it is the mans specialty.
Nutrition I mean, not SJ talking out of his ass. 
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saint_john
Mar 7, 2011, 7:54 PM
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In reply to: You still think "carbs" make you fat, which is untrue
In reply to: you still think that in order to get sufficient protein on a vegan diet you have to consume "a ton of carbs," which is untrue
In reply to: you still don't understand that vegan diets tend to be slimming
(This post was edited by saint_john on Mar 7, 2011, 8:01 PM)
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 7, 2011, 8:35 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: I am doing my best to not participate in industrial agriculture. It's not sustainable & it makes us sick.
What is "industrial"? Do you only buy from Amish farmers? Does driving to the farm make it not sustainable? Is there a yield per acer needed to be sustainable?
And for the record, eat more snails - the real first domesticated animal.
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jt512
Mar 7, 2011, 8:37 PM
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saint_john wrote: In reply to: You still think "carbs" make you fat, which is untrue I've never said that; nor do I believe it. You've only insinuated that I belive it.
No, you insinuated that you believe it: "[G]etting the required amount of protein from a veg diet means that you're also consuming tons of carbs. [E]xample . . . [I]n other words, if you're going vegan prepare to do a lot of cardio[.]"
In reply to: In reply to: you still think that in order to get sufficient protein on a vegan diet you have to consume "a ton of carbs," which is untrue Other than nuts and soy based products. what sources of protein are vegan and do not also have carbs?
Yes, typically vegan diets are higher in carbohydrate than omnivore diets, but they don't contain "a ton of 'carbs'." They generally contain a healthy amount of carbohydrate.
In reply to: In reply to: you still don't understand that vegan diets tend to be slimming I agree vegan diets tend to be slimming but they are not slimming per se. it's still possible to be a vegan and be overweight.
You're right. They're not slimming per se because there is no single vegan diet. And of course I didn't say they were slimming per se; I said that "typically" they are, which is true. And if you believe that then why should someone "going vegan prepare to do a lot of 'cardio'"?
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 7, 2011, 8:40 PM)
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