it had to do what animals eat so buying beef that only eats corn and other cheap substitute is not the same as a cow eating high nutrition grass found in nature. Same thing applies to fish grown in fish farms vs fish in the river or the ones in ocean. I also noticed that high quality veggies last longer in the frig vs cheap ones. When I buy stuff off trader joes, they have a tendency to last longer vs same product I buy off Safeway.

Since you're taking the moral high ground, I suspect you are fully aware that the industrial monoculture crop fields that you are reliant upon has done a hum-dinger on the ecology that the animals you're trying to protect rely upon. Similarly, I am sure you are aware that habitat disruption from crop agriculture is a major cause of animal suffering and population declines. Since you're keenly aware of these things, I am also sure that all of your vegetables come from a home garden where not a single gnat is harmed. Or are only sentient animals bad to kill on your moral hilltop?

Hahaha, good question. I'm not sure what I'd call this in a study.

That stuff all sounds better, but is there evidence that shows that the product that ends up in our stomachs is actually healthier? Honest question, not trying to stir anything up.

To me it's not about being perfect. Yes a few gnats die. And yeah, the bike tubes I have might possibly be lined with some small animal product. and the wires in computers have some insane animal product. But if I can do my best to abstain from killing or hurting animals then I'm happy.

and yes, I understand the negative impact that over farming causes, but it's hard to find alternatives, and to me it really is more about doing the best you can, not being perfect.

I don't really want to read this whole thread, but my personal thoughts are...

I feel like as a society we've moved past the point where killing animals is necessary in keeping us healthy and alive. If you feel that your happiness is more important than animals' lives then that's fine, but it's not for me.

I really really REALLY don't care about how much healthier someone that eats meat is going to be than me, because for me it's completely a moral issue.

try to veggie food for a day and you see you will end up dumping more often so yes, the stomach works better with veggie but you also need to add high protein food to help the cells grow and veggie by itself can not do that and substitute vitamin pills can not help either. not in long term.

We raise animals specifically for food. We're at the top of the food chain, so we can do it. Tough shit.

Me neither. This is because of a few reasons:
1. It is considered slander in a U.S. court of law to speak against either large seed or large animal industries (e.g. the Oprah fiasco, McLibel cases, Monsanto vs. everyone...)
2. It is not possible for the general public to view the butchering floor of an industrial meat processing facility. It is not possible for the general public to view inside of an industrial poultry house (even researchers with whom I work have signed disclosure clauses when measuring ambient levels of ammonia). They are not allowed to report locations of any of their test sites (mandated by the USDA).
3. The suits in the USDA are often employees of the industrial companies they are regulating. Incidentally, the USDA has no authority over processing guidelines and plant development.

My question to you: Which "mega" processing facilities have you personally walked through (every level and every floor) that you are comparing the small butcher to?

Simmer down Jay. My point was that with a veg diet, protein and carbs go hand in hand as opposed to meat wich is protein without carbs.

of course vegans are leaner on average than omnivores. the average vegan is an extremely health conscious person. the average omnivore doesn't give a fuck.

bah just more evoligion (evolution religion) show me some hard evidence that I came from apes istead of forcing your unproven theories down my throat...

I've been nearly vegan for over a month now. I say 'nearly' because I am allowing myself to have the eggs from our local farm share. I am doing my best to not participate in industrial agriculture. It's not sustainable & it makes us sick.

Here are changes that I've noticed so far:

I need to drink more water.
I have more energy.
I feel more awake in general.
I am happier.
I can't drink as much beer.
My stomach aches are gone.

That being said, it wasn't a hard jump for me because the only animal based food that I had been eating before had been dairy.

True. But only in Norway, where they are regulating the amount of those toxins in the FEED.

http://www.thefishsite.com/...ish-continue-to-fall

Farmed fish for the rest of the world is still a problem. There is a lot of evidence to back this up.

Halogenated contaminants in farmed salmon, trout, tilapia, pangasius, and shrimp. - van Leeuwen, et al; Environ Sci Technol. 2009 Oct 1
"From the five species investigated, (FARMED) salmon is predominantly responsible (97%) for human exposure to the sum of the investigated contaminants."

(The bold is mine, but that's what the article says)


Yes, mercury has more impact on the developing brain, but you are way off on the source. Mercury pollution comes from power plants, incinerators, and other industries like paper plants rather than industrial spills in a body of water. It's what comes out of the plume, lands in the water, and then is converted from inorganic to methylmercury by anaerobic bacteria. Fish consume it and it moves up the food chain to the larger, predator fish.

My toxicology exam is tomorrow. Wish me luck!

I stopped eating meat and chicken 8 years ago. I found I was unable to digest it well.
Even when I would have good steak , I got a terribly nauseous.
Then I drove across the country and stopped in Nebraska, someone said do you know why our angus beef is so good? I said no. He said look at the cows, they are so happy we don't lock them up and they eat grass all day.
I stopped and looked at those cows, and indeed they looked happy, with their large brown eyes spending their days on the grass.
I tried to taste this angus beef, but I couldn't anymore. I felt for those cows, like the short story a "mothers tale".
However I continued to have fish, and eggs about once per week. Feeling concerned it would be difficult to have enough protein otherwise. I do drink organic hemp protein drinks.
Recently in the last month, I started to get sick to my stomach from eggs. Then I couldn't digest fish and also felt queasy.
So for now I'm not eating fish or eggs and dairy I rarely have.
Outside my window every morning their are little birds on the branches pecking and they look so happy and beautiful. How could I eat a bird.

Thanks for all the great comments.

So anyone reach a conclusion ? I presume we would have to have many sets of identical twins and give them different diets and see which climbs better

So I was wondering has anyone read the blood type diet and feel that certain foods are better for the various blood types. A, B ,O , AB and their diet that goes along with that book?

bah just more evoligion (evolution religion) show me some hard evidence that I came from apes istead of forcing your unproven theories down my throat...

bah just more evoligion (evolution religion) show me some hard evidence that I came from apes istead of forcing your unproven theories down my throat...

bah just more evoligion (evolution religion) show me some hard evidence that I came from apes istead of forcing your unproven theories down my throat...

great, you're not perfect, thanks. so drop the holier than thou, i am vegetarianand i'm saving the world act.

i have nothing against vegans and vegetarians, hell my daughter's a vegan, but there's nothing worse that a vegetarian that spurts the i'm not eating animals, so i can ride my high horse through the streets. you do nothing for the cause.............see PETA

I stopped eating meat and chicken 8 years ago. I found I was unable to digest it well.
Even when I would have good steak , I got a terribly nauseous.
Then I drove across the country and stopped in Nebraska, someone said do you know why our angus beef is so good? I said no. He said look at the cows, they are so happy we don't lock them up and they eat grass all day.
I stopped and looked at those cows, and indeed they looked happy, with their large brown eyes spending their days on the grass.
I tried to taste this angus beef, but I couldn't anymore. I felt for those cows, like the short story a "mothers tale".
However I continued to have fish, and eggs about once per week. Feeling concerned it would be difficult to have enough protein otherwise. I do drink organic hemp protein drinks.
Recently in the last month, I started to get sick to my stomach from eggs. Then I couldn't digest fish and also felt queasy.
So for now I'm not eating fish or eggs and dairy I rarely have.
Outside my window every morning their are little birds on the branches pecking and they look so happy and beautiful. How could I eat a bird.

Thanks for all the great comments.

So anyone reach a conclusion ? I presume we would have to have many sets of identical twins and give them different diets and see which climbs better

So I was wondering has anyone read the blood type diet and feel that certain foods are better for the various blood types. A, B ,O , AB and their diet that goes along with that book?