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WVUCLMBR
May 28, 2008, 8:30 PM
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I don't think you could do that Angry.....maybe Majid could, but you no way.
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Gmburns2000
May 28, 2008, 8:35 PM
Post #77 of 228
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troutboy wrote: Also, I cannot remember this for certain, but it's possible (due to the traversing nature of the climb prior to the crux) that a direct lower would result in someone missing the ledge and being lowered into space far enough away from the ledge to not be able to reach it. Perhaps someone who has done the route more recently can confirm/deny this. This is very likely to be the case. One could not lower directly to the ledge, as the route does traverse a bit away from the ledge (the face and the ledge are not on the same plane, so to speak).
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dynosore
May 28, 2008, 8:42 PM
Post #78 of 228
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j_ung wrote: dynosore wrote: If they were able to get webbing/knife to her, why not give her a prussic loop or some slings to ascend with instead of cutting the rope??? Give the hysterical girl a prussic loop and slings... and then shout instructions to her on how to use them to ascend? Sweet. If she doesn't know a simple technique like that, perhaps she shouldn't be following an overhanging trad climb.....I won't have a second who can't at least ascend the rope, escape the belay, etc.
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bobruef
May 28, 2008, 8:45 PM
Post #79 of 228
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Eman from Gunks.com forum wrote: Ok kids. It was me, Eric Weigeshoff, telling the story at the party. I was climbing Modern Times with Rod Schnier. We saw this start to happen while we climbed to the top from the GT. This is the story from the horse's mouth: NOTE! If I had have known what was truly going on, I would have intervened. I was leading Modern Times to the GT. I was watching a fairly inexperienced team climbing High E. (Call them Team B) Team B's leader had set up a hanging belay about 8 feet under the GT ledge, I don't know why, and was bringing up his two followers from there. At that time, there were two people from another team (Team A) who were on the High E ledge. Leader was already at the top. I then reached GT, and brought Rod up, who started to lead to top. I noticed the 2nd of Team A starting to climb way to the right of the actual start to the last pitch of High E, and was struggling. I, of course, heckled. As he just about was to the crux, the third started climbing. I realized that she was tied into the same rope. Naturally, I heckled and took a picture of the imbeciles. Rod was about on the top by now, when girl from Team A started screaming bloody murder. Can't do it, no holds, etc. Rod tops out, where he apparently encounters leader of Team A, not on top ledge where you would normally belay, but on the grassy top. He is lounging. Rod informs him that his girlfriend is going to be pissed. He says it's his sister. He sets up a z pulley, locks them off, and raps to the large ledge on top to observe. At this time, I reach top, and heckle the guy, call him an idiot (I'm having a bad day) and Rod and I proceed to rap. Rod raps to the second station, I follow. As we are sitting at the second station, pulling our rope, I see Dan Ling reaching the ledge from Doubleissima. I also notice Team A girl hanging at lip, screaming. I notice she has a sling on her, and Team B has apparently climbed up to her and built an anchor under the roof. At this point, Rod asks if we should go up to help, and I see her swinging back and forth, being pulled by Team B, who is anchored under the lip. We then hear: 1... 2... 3! The rope snaps, and she factor 2's onto the anchor that Team B built. I turn to Rod and say (Freaked out) "Did she just cut the rope?" Rod says, "She cut the rope!" This is repeated around 20 times by us both. We rap to the ground, where team A's second proceeds to drop a #1 Camalot and a sling on me, just missing me, with the call, "Heads up, yo". We leave, not wanting to clean up any mess that may ensue. This is the actual story. No embellishment. Eric Weigeshoff Oh, BTW. This entire incident could have been avoided if the leader of Team A: LOWERED THEM TO THE LEDGE Team B thought it was a better idea to cut the rope than to have them lowered. Also, there was no party of 5. There was the original 3 (Team A) 3 from Team B, Tim (Who owns Bubba) was part of a party of 3 on Directissima who had not reached the ledge, and Dan Ling on Doubleissima, with his partner on the ground. She was hanging off the second, who was hanging off the leader. The second could communicate with the leader, and asked him to lower them both, had he brains, which, apparently, he didn't. Wow, I'm kind-of glad I missed that fiasco Saturday.
(This post was edited by bobruef on May 28, 2008, 8:47 PM)
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macherry
May 28, 2008, 8:58 PM
Post #80 of 228
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oh dear!!!
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bobruef
May 28, 2008, 9:11 PM
Post #81 of 228
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The picture, from Eman on Gunks.com
(This post was edited by bobruef on May 28, 2008, 9:20 PM)
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hummm
May 28, 2008, 9:44 PM
Post #82 of 228
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I was wondering the whole time why didn't the leader of team A just lower the two climbers! It just sounded so ridiculous, cutting the rope. Glad it worked out... sort of. Gosh.....
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fjclimbsrocks
May 28, 2008, 10:08 PM
Post #83 of 228
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What time did this all go down on Saturday? I was in the area on The Last Will be First and Ursula in the morning... It's frustrating that I could have just missed being a reliable witness! Also, a few people have joked about Eiger Sanction, but is it possible that the webbing could have been to reel the girl in from the void? I have done High E at least a half dozen times, and can certainly picture her stuck in the void if she wasn't able to pull "the move" Finally, I'd like to go on record as sympathizing with the poor b@stard in the middle. He was likely pinned to the wall unable to move up or down while people screamed, shouted and weilded cutlery all around him
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ratherbe
May 28, 2008, 10:50 PM
Post #84 of 228
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Is anyone else wondering how the screamer then got down from the GT ledge?
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extreme_actuary
May 28, 2008, 10:54 PM
Post #85 of 228
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I am still not sure what was going on. 1. If the leader was unable to see or hear his climbers in trouble, couldn't the leader of the five-person group climb up to him and let them know what was going on? 2. If he could hear, but didn't know how to lower using an auto-block, couldn't the leader of the five-person party or any other competent climber in the area get to him and help with this? It seems like pulling a "Touching the Void" would be my last option. I guess the leader of the five-person group gets points for "thinking outside the box."
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bobruef
May 28, 2008, 11:05 PM
Post #86 of 228
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There was no party of 5. See my post above for the details.
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fjclimbsrocks
May 28, 2008, 11:29 PM
Post #87 of 228
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bobruef wrote: Eman from Gunks.com forum wrote: Ok kids. It was me, Eric Weigeshoff, telling the story at the party. I was climbing Modern Times with Rod Schnier. We saw this start to happen while we climbed to the top from the GT. This is the story from the horse's mouth: NOTE! If I had have known what was truly going on, I would have intervened. I was leading Modern Times to the GT. I was watching a fairly inexperienced team climbing High E. (Call them Team B) Team B's leader had set up a hanging belay about 8 feet under the GT ledge, I don't know why, and was bringing up his two followers from there. At that time, there were two people from another team (Team A) who were on the High E ledge. Leader was already at the top. I then reached GT, and brought Rod up, who started to lead to top. I noticed the 2nd of Team A starting to climb way to the right of the actual start to the last pitch of High E, and was struggling. I, of course, heckled. As he just about was to the crux, the third started climbing. I realized that she was tied into the same rope. Naturally, I heckled and took a picture of the imbeciles. Rod was about on the top by now, when girl from Team A started screaming bloody murder. Can't do it, no holds, etc. Rod tops out, where he apparently encounters leader of Team A, not on top ledge where you would normally belay, but on the grassy top. He is lounging. Rod informs him that his girlfriend is going to be pissed. He says it's his sister. He sets up a z pulley, locks them off, and raps to the large ledge on top to observe. At this time, I reach top, and heckle the guy, call him an idiot (I'm having a bad day) and Rod and I proceed to rap. Rod raps to the second station, I follow. As we are sitting at the second station, pulling our rope, I see Dan Ling reaching the ledge from Doubleissima. I also notice Team A girl hanging at lip, screaming. I notice she has a sling on her, and Team B has apparently climbed up to her and built an anchor under the roof. At this point, Rod asks if we should go up to help, and I see her swinging back and forth, being pulled by Team B, who is anchored under the lip. We then hear: 1... 2... 3! The rope snaps, and she factor 2's onto the anchor that Team B built. I turn to Rod and say (Freaked out) "Did she just cut the rope?" Rod says, "She cut the rope!" This is repeated around 20 times by us both. We rap to the ground, where team A's second proceeds to drop a #1 Camalot and a sling on me, just missing me, with the call, "Heads up, yo". We leave, not wanting to clean up any mess that may ensue. This is the actual story. No embellishment. Eric Weigeshoff Oh, BTW. This entire incident could have been avoided if the leader of Team A: LOWERED THEM TO THE LEDGE Team B thought it was a better idea to cut the rope than to have them lowered. Also, there was no party of 5. There was the original 3 (Team A) 3 from Team B, Tim (Who owns Bubba) was part of a party of 3 on Directissima who had not reached the ledge, and Dan Ling on Doubleissima, with his partner on the ground. She was hanging off the second, who was hanging off the leader. The second could communicate with the leader, and asked him to lower them both, had he brains, which, apparently, he didn't. Wow, I'm kind-of glad I missed that fiasco Saturday. Let me get this straight...she factor 2'd onto the anchor which she was attached to with a piece of webbing???? I can only imagine what type of anchor is produced by people who consider cutting the rope a viable option. You probably couldn't see, but I remember that the only gear available immediately below the roof is a 3.5+ camalot. Did their anchor look like it could have held a factor 2? How did her fall go? Did she slam into the wall? I bet the thought of their anchor failing and everybody taking a big ride didn't even occur to them...
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Adk
May 29, 2008, 12:10 AM
Post #88 of 228
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Glad I got the story. Man I'm glad no one was injured. Climbers of either group that is.
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lucander
May 29, 2008, 1:24 AM
Post #89 of 228
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Just out of curiosity, what - if anything - does "the public" think climbing rangers ought to do if they are notified about a situation like this? DL
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billcoe_
May 29, 2008, 1:46 AM
Post #90 of 228
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lucander wrote: Just out of curiosity, what - if anything - does "the public" think climbing rangers ought to do if they are notified about a situation like this? DL They need to advise a good brand of knife to cut the line. duhh. __________________________________________________
j_ung wrote: This is the best thing to hit the boards since the 30th or 40th Alien exploded. My one wild voyeur hair is itching, just itching, I tell you. Gawd, a 5-person party? That alone ought to be illegal. Nice call, there has to be some red faces and EXTREEEMMME EMBARRASSMENT on that clusterF*! It serves the useful purpose of keeping climbing less populated, as must of those folks probably will never go out again. So the circle of life is complete and it is good. How about a discussion of the best knife to use to cut your rope like Clint Eastwood had to do now?
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cracklover
May 29, 2008, 2:19 AM
Post #91 of 228
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lucander wrote: Just out of curiosity, what - if anything - does "the public" think climbing rangers ought to do if they are notified about a situation like this? DL Well, if you meet them, maybe suggest a course in self rescue. Aside from that, people will be dumb. There's not much the Preserve can do about it, aside from being ready and willing to assist in rescues when needed. Which you guys do. The sad thing is that no professional rescue *should have* been required. You'd figure that any self-respecting trad leader would know better... Mostly, I guess, the best one can do is education. The fact that these folks really thought theirs was the best course of action also suggests that humility about one's technical knowledge is a valuable trait! GO
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cragmasterp
May 29, 2008, 2:46 AM
Post #93 of 228
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Ahh, fer fuks sake, man!
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stymingersfink
May 29, 2008, 3:03 AM
Post #94 of 228
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so, my question in all of this is... did the guy who cleaned the bootie get to take it home and throw it in the gear closet?
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shockabuku
May 29, 2008, 3:37 AM
Post #96 of 228
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lucander wrote: Just out of curiosity, what - if anything - does "the public" think climbing rangers ought to do if they are notified about a situation like this? DL Cringe, sigh, swear, go see how it turns out.
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socalclimber
May 29, 2008, 4:14 AM
Post #97 of 228
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I'm at a loss for words on this one. Well, maybe just one: Idiots.
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robbovius
May 29, 2008, 12:58 PM
Post #98 of 228
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fjclimbsrocks wrote: Also, a few people have joked about Eiger Sanction, *raises hand*
In reply to: but is it possible that the webbing could have been to reel the girl in from the void? I have done High E at least a half dozen times, and can certainly picture her stuck in the void if she wasn't able to pull "the move" I've only led High E once, but once I pulled the crux move out onto the P3 face (after 20-30 minutes of working up the nerve to do it) I found that the crux move isn't physically difficult, just awkward and commiting. you pull out, reach up with your left hand and boom there's this big old jug right there. it's actually kinda easy.
In reply to: Finally, I'd like to go on record as sympathizing with the poor b@stard in the middle. He was likely pinned to the wall unable to move up or down while people screamed, shouted and weilded cutlery all around him ^sympatico^
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skelterjohn
May 29, 2008, 1:10 PM
Post #100 of 228
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In reply to: I'm sure we would all like to know exactly how this scenario played out, but one thing that could not have happened is that the webbing caught a direct fall (she walked away uninjured, apparently). I disagree. If the webbing is attached to the rope, then it's just like having an extended harness. No one suggested the webbing was tied directly into a static anchor.
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