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jsh
Jun 5, 2008, 2:48 AM
Post #151 of 228
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rangerrob wrote: Why is everyone so up in arms about a rope being cut? It's not like this is a total taboo.
Joe Simpson jokes aside, this is true. It was one of several valid ways to get her off of the rope from above. The problem wasn't the cutting of the rope - it was who did it (cf. 'guns don't kill people, people do'). She, the climber described as a newbie in total panic, should not have been handed a knife.
It's part of the answer to shockabuku. No one lacks sympathy for her (and, can you be more specific about which statements you find outrageous, or are you just trolling?). The issue is not sympathy, or emotions, the issue is with the facts. Once she's fallen, scared, and helpless, it is 100% someone else's responsibility to make sure she gets to the ground safely and calmly. That -barely- happened here.
The reason for all the Monday morning quarterbacking is to a) figure out what actually happened, b) figure out what was good and what was bad, and c) figure out what we can do better. If you have problems with that - click away.
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olderic
Jun 5, 2008, 1:39 PM
Post #152 of 228
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jsh wrote: The reason for all the Monday morning quarterbacking is to a) figure out what actually happened, b) figure out what was good and what was bad, and c) figure out what we can do better. If you have problems with that - click away.
Until there is input from the primary people involved - those on both ends of the rope - it's all idle speculation (which I guess is 90&+ of what rc.com is about). With all that it has been said so far I think the odds of getting any input from them are small.
RR - I have probably cut more ropes then you - but running around like Rambo in a situation that was not an emergency and had many other possible less drastic solutions that had not been tried- a little over the top IMO.
I'm 99% sure Shock's comment was tongue in cheek (I think you kids call them trolls) but if it was legit I would just say that keeping calm and trying to establish contact with the leader would have been a lot better for the victim then getting in a frenzy - "Oh my god we have to take drastic action to rescue her NOW".
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blueeyedclimber
Jun 5, 2008, 1:57 PM
Post #153 of 228
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olderic wrote: - "Oh my god we have to take drastic action to rescue her NOW".
Although I made a comment about someone rushing to action, I didn't really mean it like that. I agree, that you almost never have to RUSH, except for the situations that you mentioned before.
All of your other comments, like everyone else's, are purely speculation and second-guessing. There seems like there would have been a million other ways to handle the situation in a better way, but the fact of the matter is that neither you or I was there and in a position to help. There could have been a lot of subtleties involved that brought them to the conclusion that wielding a knife was the correct decision. This could be that they were just unknowledgable about other courses of action.
Josh
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jrathfon
Jun 5, 2008, 2:08 PM
Post #154 of 228
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olderic wrote: jsh wrote: The reason for all the Monday morning quarterbacking is to a) figure out what actually happened, b) figure out what was good and what was bad, and c) figure out what we can do better. If you have problems with that - click away. Until there is input from the primary people involved - those on both ends of the rope - it's all idle speculation (which I guess is 90&+ of what rc.com is about). With all that it has been said so far I think the odds of getting any input from them are small. RR - I have probably cut more ropes then you - but running around like Rambo in a situation that was not an emergency and had many other possible less drastic solutions that had not been tried- a little over the top IMO. I'm 99% sure Shock's comment was tongue in cheek (I think you kids call them trolls) but if it was legit I would just say that keeping calm and trying to establish contact with the leader would have been a lot better for the victim then getting in a frenzy - "Oh my god we have to take drastic action to rescue her NOW".
There is input from a member of one of the parties, the guy who handed her the knife and rope.... or can't you read good?
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olderic
Jun 5, 2008, 2:32 PM
Post #155 of 228
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jrathfon wrote: olderic wrote: Until there is input from the primary people involved - those on both ends of the rope - it's all idle speculation (which I guess is 90&+ of what rc.com is about). With all that it has been said so far I think the odds of getting any input from them are small. There is input from a member of one of the parties, the guy who handed her the knife and rope.... or can't you read good? [image]http://mike.verdone.ca/media/zoolander-school.jpg[/image]
That would be read WELL there pal - I do assume English is what you are trying to speak.. And for extra points on the reading comprehension part it should have been pretty clear I mean that the two people who would have significant input would be the leader belayer on top and the girl. I am well aware we have already heard from team Rambo.
Josh - of course I am aware I am speculating. That was the basic flaw in this thread from post 1. Still it seems like it is pretty obvious that the root cause of the problem was a communication failure with the leader on top. There didn't seem to be much focus on correcting that as opposed to immediately doing things to extricate the girl. But you are right there may have been more to the situation then has been stated so far.
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bobruef
Jun 5, 2008, 2:43 PM
Post #156 of 228
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olderic wrote: jrathfon wrote: olderic wrote: Until there is input from the primary people involved - those on both ends of the rope - it's all idle speculation (which I guess is 90&+ of what rc.com is about). With all that it has been said so far I think the odds of getting any input from them are small. There is input from a member of one of the parties, the guy who handed her the knife and rope.... or can't you read good? [image]http://mike.verdone.ca/media/zoolander-school.jpg[/image] That would be read WELL there pal - I do assume English is what you are trying to speak.. And for extra points on the reading comprehension part ...
Minus 5 billion points for missing the blatant Zoolander reference. 
(This post was edited by bobruef on Jun 5, 2008, 2:44 PM)
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getout87
Jun 5, 2008, 2:45 PM
Post #157 of 228
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-5,000,000 more
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jrathfon
Jun 5, 2008, 3:32 PM
Post #158 of 228
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olderic wrote: jrathfon wrote: olderic wrote: Until there is input from the primary people involved - those on both ends of the rope - it's all idle speculation (which I guess is 90&+ of what rc.com is about). With all that it has been said so far I think the odds of getting any input from them are small. There is input from a member of one of the parties, the guy who handed her the knife and rope.... or can't you read good? [image]http://mike.verdone.ca/media/zoolander-school.jpg[/image] That would be read WELL there pal - I do assume English is what you are trying to speak.. And for extra points on the reading comprehension part it should have been pretty clear I mean that the two people who would have significant input would be the leader belayer on top and the girl. I am well aware we have already heard from team Rambo. Josh - of course I am aware I am speculating. That was the basic flaw in this thread from post 1. Still it seems like it is pretty obvious that the root cause of the problem was a communication failure with the leader on top. There didn't seem to be much focus on correcting that as opposed to immediately doing things to extricate the girl. But you are right there may have been more to the situation then has been stated so far.
Really.....
So is the story from someone who was directly involved in the "incident" speculation? Yes, it may be good to get the thoughts of the leader of team one, but you were saying that this thread is "all idle speculation". I was simply pointing out the indisputable fact that you were wrong, and it is not "all idle speculation".
And yeah, sometimes my Engrish might be sub-par on internet threads, cause ummmm, yeah, I don't give a shit to get it perfect, as long as it's more intelligle than majid. So who is it that should attend the Derek Zoolander Center For Children Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too? You know there is more to life than being really, really good looking?
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gogounou
Jun 5, 2008, 4:40 PM
Post #159 of 228
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rangerrob wrote: Why is everyone so up in arms about a rope being cut?
I think the best response to this was offered (above your post) by Jake: the real issue isn't whether the knot was untied or the rope was cut, but rather that there is a (presumably very) inexperienced, panicked climber tied in to two ropes being handed a knife. The potential for serious error skyrockets as soon as that knife comes into play.
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hafilax
Jun 5, 2008, 4:53 PM
Post #160 of 228
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Because she could have cut both ropes tying her at the same time and then thrown the knife like a ninja into the eye of her unsuspecting rescuers shocking his parter into dropping him onto the heckling onlookers below igniting spontaneous combustion heating the rock such that it cracks and crumbles killing everyone in the process. 
You know what? She got down safely. Only the people at the scene really know if the knife was a good or a bad idea. That was their lesson to learn.
Give it up!
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moose_droppings
Jun 5, 2008, 5:01 PM
Post #161 of 228
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I'd agree that handing a knife to someone thats some what unnerved isn't the best decision. I'd also say that until the person holding these two on belay could be contacted, that the situation was dire. With the rope not moving and no comunication from the belayer, you'd have no idea on what condition the belayer himself is in (passed out, injured, or just can't hear?).
The guy in the middle must of been shiting bricks.
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Smikey
Jun 5, 2008, 6:39 PM
Post #163 of 228
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I've been reading this whole thing and all you people are clueless. Cutting the rope makes PERFECT sense. It’s a viable option in a lot of situations and has been used many times in the past (Joe Simpson aside).
This is the main reason why I now only purchase 70m ropes. That way you can cut a few feet off either end (like this situation) and still have a useable 60m rope.
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shockabuku
Jun 5, 2008, 7:11 PM
Post #164 of 228
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Smikey wrote: I've been reading this whole thing and all you people are clueless. Cutting the rope makes PERFECT sense. It’s a viable option in a lot of situations and has been used many times in the past (Joe Simpson aside). This is the main reason why I now only purchase 70m ropes. That way you can cut a few feet off either end (like this situation) and still have a useable 60m rope.
Is there something special about a 60m rope? Following your logic you could just as readily buy a 50m rope, cut a few feet off either end, and have a useable 45m rope.
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skelterjohn
Jun 5, 2008, 7:54 PM
Post #165 of 228
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In reply to: Is there something special about a 60m rope? Following your logic you could just as readily buy a 50m rope, cut a few feet off either end, and have a useable 45m rope.
When people set up rappel stations, they often do so with a 60 meter rope in mind.
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dlintz
Jun 5, 2008, 8:16 PM
Post #166 of 228
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skelterjohn wrote: In reply to: Is there something special about a 60m rope? Following your logic you could just as readily buy a 50m rope, cut a few feet off either end, and have a useable 45m rope. When people set up rappel stations, they often do so with a 60 meter rope in mind.
Not that long ago they did the same thing with a 50 meter rope in mind.
d.
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Gmburns2000
Jun 5, 2008, 8:21 PM
Post #167 of 228
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dlintz wrote: skelterjohn wrote: In reply to: Is there something special about a 60m rope? Following your logic you could just as readily buy a 50m rope, cut a few feet off either end, and have a useable 45m rope. When people set up rappel stations, they often do so with a 60 meter rope in mind. Not that long ago they did the same thing with a 50 meter rope in mind. d.
And before that they jumped. I've always wondered why the old-timers walked with a limp.
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gogounou
Jun 5, 2008, 8:22 PM
Post #168 of 228
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hafilax wrote: Because she could have cut both ropes tying her at the same time and then thrown the knife like a ninja into the eye of her unsuspecting rescuers shocking his parter into dropping him onto the heckling onlookers below igniting spontaneous combustion heating the rock such that it cracks and crumbles killing everyone in the process.
Well, best case scenario, sure. That'd really give us something to bitch about now, wouldn't it?
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Smikey
Jun 5, 2008, 8:40 PM
Post #169 of 228
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shockabuku wrote: Smikey wrote: I've been reading this whole thing and all you people are clueless. Cutting the rope makes PERFECT sense. It’s a viable option in a lot of situations and has been used many times in the past (Joe Simpson aside). This is the main reason why I now only purchase 70m ropes. That way you can cut a few feet off either end (like this situation) and still have a useable 60m rope. Is there something special about a 60m rope? Following your logic you could just as readily buy a 50m rope, cut a few feet off either end, and have a useable 45m rope.
My god…I try to fan flames in here… and this is what I get?
Slam-dunking in nOObville.
(This post was edited by Smikey on Jun 5, 2008, 8:41 PM)
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Gmburns2000
Jun 5, 2008, 9:35 PM
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cracklover wrote: olderic wrote: Josh - of course I am aware I am speculating. That was the basic flaw in this thread from post 1. Excuse me? I think your memory's failing you even faster than mine is failing me, old man! Post 1 was a request for firsthand information for the purpose of *clarifying*, not speculating. GO
There was a first post? Wow, it's been such a long journey that I...I...well, I forgot what I was going to say.
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stymingersfink
Jun 5, 2008, 10:10 PM
Post #172 of 228
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Gmburns2000 wrote: cracklover wrote: olderic wrote: Josh - of course I am aware I am speculating. That was the basic flaw in this thread from post 1. Excuse me? I think your memory's failing you even faster than mine is failing me, old man! Post 1 was a request for firsthand information for the purpose of *clarifying*, not speculating. GO There was a first post? Wow, it's been such a long journey that I...I...well, I forgot what I was going to say.
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happiegrrrl
Jun 5, 2008, 10:20 PM
Post #173 of 228
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cracklover wrote: olderic wrote: Josh - of course I am aware I am speculating. That was the basic flaw in this thread from post 1. Excuse me? I think your memory's failing you even faster than mine is failing me, old man! Post 1 was a request for firsthand information for the purpose of *clarifying*, not speculating. GO
Well....I guess he meant from post #2 then....heheheh
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shockabuku
Jun 5, 2008, 11:36 PM
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Smikey wrote: shockabuku wrote: Smikey wrote: I've been reading this whole thing and all you people are clueless. Cutting the rope makes PERFECT sense. It’s a viable option in a lot of situations and has been used many times in the past (Joe Simpson aside). This is the main reason why I now only purchase 70m ropes. That way you can cut a few feet off either end (like this situation) and still have a useable 60m rope. Is there something special about a 60m rope? Following your logic you could just as readily buy a 50m rope, cut a few feet off either end, and have a useable 45m rope. My god…I try to fan flames in here… and this is what I get? Slam-dunking in nOObville.
At this point I think we're almost all trying to fan the flames but the wood's mostly run out.
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Gmburns2000
Jun 6, 2008, 1:02 AM
Post #175 of 228
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shockabuku wrote: Smikey wrote: shockabuku wrote: Smikey wrote: I've been reading this whole thing and all you people are clueless. Cutting the rope makes PERFECT sense. It’s a viable option in a lot of situations and has been used many times in the past (Joe Simpson aside). This is the main reason why I now only purchase 70m ropes. That way you can cut a few feet off either end (like this situation) and still have a useable 60m rope. Is there something special about a 60m rope? Following your logic you could just as readily buy a 50m rope, cut a few feet off either end, and have a useable 45m rope. My god…I try to fan flames in here… and this is what I get? Slam-dunking in nOObville. At this point I think we're almost all trying to fan the flames but the wood's mostly run out.
Oh yeah? Well I heard they were all gay Republicans whose family values include spanking their urban youths at Unitarian war protests. And get this, they all met at the gym.
OH.
MY.
GOD!
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