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gmggg
Mar 22, 2011, 5:09 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it. Jay You may know a lot about nutrition but you seem to know nothing about food. There is a difference between ingesting calories and eating a meal. I do accept your health concerns completely. But I can think of a dozen things that you can't do with a butter substitute - not to mention the dishes that don't yield equivalent results with oils and/or shortening. he was actually responding to me earlier in the thread, but as an aside, I recently learned that you can't do risotto without butter. I don't know if it can be done, and I was concerned when I saw her putting butter in the pot, but I admit that it was damn good.
Not the greatest example of something that would be impossible without butter. But it damn sure wouldn't taste the same or have the same consistency.
For something that is impossible without butter try glazed carrots.
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gmggg
Mar 22, 2011, 5:09 PM
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saint_john wrote: i'll be the devil's advocate and say that croissants are also not possible without butter.
Well, unfortunately supermarkets across the country have proved you wrong. Although their results are inferior to a true croissant.
Something that is impossible without butter would be a pate ŕ choux.
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spikeddem
Mar 22, 2011, 5:12 PM
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gmggg wrote: saint_john wrote: i'll be the devil's advocate and say that croissants are also not possible without butter. Well, unfortunately supermarkets across the country have proved you wrong. Although their results are inferior to a true croissant. Something that is impossible without butter would be a pate ŕ choux.
Or a butter stick sandwich. A truly fine delicacy once enjoyed in my younger days.
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saint_john
Mar 22, 2011, 5:14 PM
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...or gooey butter cake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gooey_butter_cake
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csproul
Mar 22, 2011, 5:17 PM
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spikeddem wrote: gmggg wrote: saint_john wrote: i'll be the devil's advocate and say that croissants are also not possible without butter. Well, unfortunately supermarkets across the country have proved you wrong. Although their results are inferior to a true croissant. Something that is impossible without butter would be a pate ŕ choux. Or a butter stick sandwich. A truly fine delicacy once enjoyed in my younger days.
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gmggg
Mar 22, 2011, 5:25 PM
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jt512 wrote: gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it. Jay You may know a lot about nutrition but you seem to know nothing about food. There is a difference between ingesting calories and eating a meal. I do accept your health concerns completely. But I can think of a dozen things that you can't do with a butter substitute - not to mention the dishes that don't yield equivalent results with oils and/or shortening. I have not consumed a single homemade meal in like 30 years that contained butter. It has been literally that long since there has been a stick of butter in my home. How many of those dozen things that supposedly require butter are healthy foods? The only mentions so far are croissants an pie crust, not exactly big in the healthy food department. Jay
I never argued that it is impossible to "consume a meal" without butter. I even made sure to delineate the difference between fueling your body and participating in the experience of eating.
I do agree with you about the healthfulness of any particular buttery item. But as I said, there are some things that (if you're going to eat them) should be (or can only be) made out of butter.
To use an earlier example: Why would you shove a greasy margarine croissant into your face when you could enjoy a delicate buttery one? To save a few g of saturated fat? The caloric value of either croissant is most likely equal. Should you be ingesting 300 calories of sugar and fat in the first place? Probably not. But if you must, then shouldn't it be the highest quality experience possible?
And I do agree with you that butter can be eliminated in daily cooking.
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jt512
Mar 22, 2011, 5:27 PM
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gmggg wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it. Jay You may know a lot about nutrition but you seem to know nothing about food. There is a difference between ingesting calories and eating a meal. I do accept your health concerns completely. But I can think of a dozen things that you can't do with a butter substitute - not to mention the dishes that don't yield equivalent results with oils and/or shortening. he was actually responding to me earlier in the thread, but as an aside, I recently learned that you can't do risotto without butter. I don't know if it can be done, and I was concerned when I saw her putting butter in the pot, but I admit that it was damn good. Not the greatest example of something that would be impossible without butter. But it damn sure wouldn't taste the same or have the same consistency. For something that is impossible without butter try glazed carrots.
I don't know about "glazed" carrots, but what's wrong with using olive oil instead? Yes, they'll taste different. So what? Get used to the taste of healthy food. The fact is that if you want to eat a healthy diet, there are certain things you have to do differently. If most people substituted vegetables oils for the animal fats in their diet they would see an almost immediate significant reduction in their blood cholesterol level, with attendant reduction in heart disease risk.
Jay
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marc801
Mar 22, 2011, 5:29 PM
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gmggg
Mar 22, 2011, 5:39 PM
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jt512 wrote: gmggg wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it. Jay You may know a lot about nutrition but you seem to know nothing about food. There is a difference between ingesting calories and eating a meal. I do accept your health concerns completely. But I can think of a dozen things that you can't do with a butter substitute - not to mention the dishes that don't yield equivalent results with oils and/or shortening. he was actually responding to me earlier in the thread, but as an aside, I recently learned that you can't do risotto without butter. I don't know if it can be done, and I was concerned when I saw her putting butter in the pot, but I admit that it was damn good. Not the greatest example of something that would be impossible without butter. But it damn sure wouldn't taste the same or have the same consistency. For something that is impossible without butter try glazed carrots. but what's wrong with using olive oil instead? Yes, they'll taste different. So what? Get used to the taste of healthy food. The fact is that if you want to eat a healthy diet, there are certain things you have to do differently. If most people substituted vegetables oils for the animal fats in their diet they would see an almost immediate significant reduction in their blood cholesterol level, with attendant reduction in heart disease risk. Jay
My point exactly!
While I admittedly don't know the specific chemistry of why not you can't use olive/vegetable oil for a glaze because the sugar does not combine sufficiently to produce an even coating. While you can fake the effect with cornstarch, arrow root, taro, or any emulsifier it's not the same as the creamy full-coating glaze you get with butter.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 22, 2011, 5:48 PM
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Other things for which butter is better than olive oil.
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airscape
Mar 22, 2011, 6:09 PM
Post #436 of 509
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jt512 wrote: gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it. Jay You may know a lot about nutrition but you seem to know nothing about food. There is a difference between ingesting calories and eating a meal. I do accept your health concerns completely. But I can think of a dozen things that you can't do with a butter substitute - not to mention the dishes that don't yield equivalent results with oils and/or shortening. I have not consumed a single homemade meal in like 30 years that contained butter. It has been literally that long since there has been a stick of butter in my home. How many of those dozen things that supposedly require butter are healthy foods? The only mentions so far are croissants an pie crust, not exactly big in the healthy food department. Jay
You can say "supposedly require butter", but if you really want it to be super awesome tasty then substitution just isn't an option. The same is true for cream.
Just fresh bread with a thick slice of butter beats any margarine/oil/.
Beurre blanc
Beurre noisette
Cake <- If I eat cake it must be awesome, any substitute or shortcut and I don't eat it. I rather have less of something than have to eat shit.
chicken kiev
butter chicken
Bread and butter pudding
Risotto
Alfredo
Also eggs, you can't fry/scramble eggs in anything else and I don't care what anyone says it doesn't work.
Is a few years of supposed life really worth not eating butter?
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airscape
Mar 22, 2011, 6:11 PM
Post #437 of 509
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spikeddem wrote: gmggg wrote: saint_john wrote: i'll be the devil's advocate and say that croissants are also not possible without butter. Well, unfortunately supermarkets across the country have proved you wrong. Although their results are inferior to a true croissant. Something that is impossible without butter would be a pate ŕ choux. Or a butter stick sandwich. A truly fine delicacy once enjoyed in my younger days.
+1
Although I only partake if the bread is truly excellent.
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spikeddem
Mar 22, 2011, 6:15 PM
Post #438 of 509
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airscape wrote: spikeddem wrote: gmggg wrote: saint_john wrote: i'll be the devil's advocate and say that croissants are also not possible without butter. Well, unfortunately supermarkets across the country have proved you wrong. Although their results are inferior to a true croissant. Something that is impossible without butter would be a pate ŕ choux. Or a butter stick sandwich. A truly fine delicacy once enjoyed in my younger days. +1 Although I only partake if the bread is truly excellent.
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airscape
Mar 22, 2011, 6:17 PM
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gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: gmggg wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it. Jay You may know a lot about nutrition but you seem to know nothing about food. There is a difference between ingesting calories and eating a meal. I do accept your health concerns completely. But I can think of a dozen things that you can't do with a butter substitute - not to mention the dishes that don't yield equivalent results with oils and/or shortening. he was actually responding to me earlier in the thread, but as an aside, I recently learned that you can't do risotto without butter. I don't know if it can be done, and I was concerned when I saw her putting butter in the pot, but I admit that it was damn good. Not the greatest example of something that would be impossible without butter. But it damn sure wouldn't taste the same or have the same consistency. For something that is impossible without butter try glazed carrots. but what's wrong with using olive oil instead? Yes, they'll taste different. So what? Get used to the taste of healthy food. The fact is that if you want to eat a healthy diet, there are certain things you have to do differently. If most people substituted vegetables oils for the animal fats in their diet they would see an almost immediate significant reduction in their blood cholesterol level, with attendant reduction in heart disease risk. Jay My point exactly! While I admittedly don't know the specific chemistry of why not you can't use olive/vegetable oil for a glaze because the sugar does not combine sufficiently to produce an even coating. While you can fake the effect with cornstarch, arrow root, taro, or any emulsifier it's not the same as the creamy full-coating glaze you get with butter.
Doughnut forgets a baked potato. it's sour cream or butter.
Glazed carrots taste crap with olive oil, if you are going to use sugar you might just as well put the butters.
Also mashed potato, the butter is key.
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airscape
Mar 22, 2011, 6:23 PM
Post #440 of 509
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spikeddem wrote: airscape wrote: spikeddem wrote: gmggg wrote: saint_john wrote: i'll be the devil's advocate and say that croissants are also not possible without butter. Well, unfortunately supermarkets across the country have proved you wrong. Although their results are inferior to a true croissant. Something that is impossible without butter would be a pate ŕ choux. Or a butter stick sandwich. A truly fine delicacy once enjoyed in my younger days. +1 Although I only partake if the bread is truly excellent. The bread is made of butter.
One of my favorite eats is slow roasted lamb ribs with new potatoes roasted in the lamb fat and topped with butter with a side of glazed carrots and coleslaw. Also with dessert of bread and butter pudding.
Shiny face = happy face.
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airscape
Mar 22, 2011, 6:26 PM
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Pumpkin also needs butter.
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jt512
Mar 22, 2011, 6:31 PM
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gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: gmggg wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it. Jay You may know a lot about nutrition but you seem to know nothing about food. There is a difference between ingesting calories and eating a meal. I do accept your health concerns completely. But I can think of a dozen things that you can't do with a butter substitute - not to mention the dishes that don't yield equivalent results with oils and/or shortening. he was actually responding to me earlier in the thread, but as an aside, I recently learned that you can't do risotto without butter. I don't know if it can be done, and I was concerned when I saw her putting butter in the pot, but I admit that it was damn good. Not the greatest example of something that would be impossible without butter. But it damn sure wouldn't taste the same or have the same consistency. For something that is impossible without butter try glazed carrots. but what's wrong with using olive oil instead? Yes, they'll taste different. So what? Get used to the taste of healthy food. The fact is that if you want to eat a healthy diet, there are certain things you have to do differently. If most people substituted vegetables oils for the animal fats in their diet they would see an almost immediate significant reduction in their blood cholesterol level, with attendant reduction in heart disease risk. Jay My point exactly! While I admittedly don't know the specific chemistry of why not you can't use olive/vegetable oil for a glaze because the sugar does not combine sufficiently to produce an even coating. While you can fake the effect with cornstarch, arrow root, taro, or any emulsifier it's not the same as the creamy full-coating glaze you get with butter.
So you need to use butter instead of olive oil, because you need to use sugar, too. I guess, then, you've made my point as well.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 22, 2011, 6:38 PM)
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saint_john
Mar 22, 2011, 6:38 PM
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In reply to: Is a few years of supposed life really worth not eating butter?
probably not, airscape. probably not.
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gmggg
Mar 22, 2011, 7:01 PM
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I forgot to remind you that I agree completely about the claims you are making re:health. I'm just of the mind that moderation is sufficient. If that assumption is wrong in some way I would be genuinely interested to hear it.
I imagine that moderation can mean a lot of different things biologically. So maybe it's a silly thing to talk about from any sort of scientific or verifiable standpoint.
But... I would be willing to accept (and appreciate) your inference on the matter.
1. Can "healthy eating" be achieved with out the wholesale sacrifice of superfluous foods such as alcohol, butter, bacon, et. al.
2. If it can, how much better would this "healthier eating" be than an unregulated diet.
3. How much worse than a perfect diet?
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Gmburns2000
Mar 22, 2011, 7:01 PM
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jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: I recently learned that you can't do risotto without butter. Googling "risotto without butter" will quickly show you that that's false. Jay
I'm not a cook, and I don't cook with butter, but the folks making it said that it couldn't be done. Now, what they really may have meant is that risotto without butter is crap. I don't know if that's true or not.
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hafilax
Mar 22, 2011, 7:09 PM
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jt512 wrote: gmggg wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it. Jay You may know a lot about nutrition but you seem to know nothing about food. There is a difference between ingesting calories and eating a meal. I do accept your health concerns completely. But I can think of a dozen things that you can't do with a butter substitute - not to mention the dishes that don't yield equivalent results with oils and/or shortening. he was actually responding to me earlier in the thread, but as an aside, I recently learned that you can't do risotto without butter. I don't know if it can be done, and I was concerned when I saw her putting butter in the pot, but I admit that it was damn good. Not the greatest example of something that would be impossible without butter. But it damn sure wouldn't taste the same or have the same consistency. For something that is impossible without butter try glazed carrots. I don't know about "glazed" carrots, but what's wrong with using olive oil instead? Yes, they'll taste different. So what? Get used to the taste of healthy food. The fact is that if you want to eat a healthy diet, there are certain things you have to do differently. If most people substituted vegetables oils for the animal fats in their diet they would see an almost immediate significant reduction in their blood cholesterol level, with attendant reduction in heart disease risk. Jay
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jt512
Mar 22, 2011, 7:15 PM
Post #447 of 509
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Gmburns2000 wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: I recently learned that you can't do risotto without butter. Googling "risotto without butter" will quickly show you that that's false. Jay I'm not a cook, and I don't cook with butter, but the folks making it said that it couldn't be done. Now, what they really may have meant is that risotto without butter is crap. I don't know if that's true or not.
I think risotto made with butter tastes like crap, and the fact that you have to wait extra long for it to be prepared for you in restaurants just adds insult to injury. I can't see how making it with olive oil could make it taste any worse.
Jay
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jt512
Mar 22, 2011, 7:18 PM
Post #448 of 509
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hafilax wrote: jt512 wrote: gmggg wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: gmggg wrote: jt512 wrote: Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it. Jay You may know a lot about nutrition but you seem to know nothing about food. There is a difference between ingesting calories and eating a meal. I do accept your health concerns completely. But I can think of a dozen things that you can't do with a butter substitute - not to mention the dishes that don't yield equivalent results with oils and/or shortening. he was actually responding to me earlier in the thread, but as an aside, I recently learned that you can't do risotto without butter. I don't know if it can be done, and I was concerned when I saw her putting butter in the pot, but I admit that it was damn good. Not the greatest example of something that would be impossible without butter. But it damn sure wouldn't taste the same or have the same consistency. For something that is impossible without butter try glazed carrots. I don't know about "glazed" carrots, but what's wrong with using olive oil instead? Yes, they'll taste different. So what? Get used to the taste of healthy food. The fact is that if you want to eat a healthy diet, there are certain things you have to do differently. If most people substituted vegetables oils for the animal fats in their diet they would see an almost immediate significant reduction in their blood cholesterol level, with attendant reduction in heart disease risk. Jay You keep talking about the absolute blood cholesterol. Isn't the HDL to LDL ratio a better indicator of heart disease risk?
I've been oversimplifying. Yes, LDL-cholesterol is the bad stuff and HDL- the good stuff. Substituting vegetable oils for animal fats reduces LDL-cholesterol, and has no effect on HDL-cholesterol, and therefore lowers the LDL/HDL ratio.
In reply to: I agree that intelligently managing the absolute cholesterol levels is important . . .
Actually, it's not important. What's important are the relative levels of the cholesterol fractions. I've seen people with total cholesterol of less than 100 mg/dL, but HDL of 0, whom I would consider at high risk for heart disease; but people with total cholesterol near 200 mg/dL with HDL over 100 mg/dL, who I would consider at low risk.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 22, 2011, 7:23 PM)
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justroberto
Mar 22, 2011, 7:20 PM
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gmggg wrote: Something that is impossible without butter would be a pate ŕ choux.
Or buerre blanc, or eggs benedict, or...
What a joyless existence that must be.
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