Very True and Very Moral. In fact later on the thread I have studies from the blue zone areas such as Costa Rica, Okinara, Ikaria, Sardina. and the Nicola Pennisula and they consume a largely vegen diet. The life over 100

More Recently The New England Journal of Medicine published a study with centurians where 77% of the people would live to 100 based on their genome , genetic markers. Included are genes for resilence, as well as diet plays a part.

Both of these research studies are on line google living in blue zones. and New England Journal of Medicine living centurians and you can read the research for yourself.

The most important part is you will unlikely suffer from a heart attack from meat or cancer from saturated fat and poor diet. Stay healthy

Out of curiosity, and separately from this discussion, anyone know how much better olive oil is over butter?

More Recently The New England Journal of Medicine published a study with centurians where 77% of the people would live to 100 based on their genome . . .

Yes it is very difficult on the west coast to get wild fish thats not farm raised. There is so much better fish in the east coast and its fresh. I won't eat farmed either.
I do occasionally get salmon and once and a wild I find dover sole from the east coast but it isn't fish. The sell alot of fish from Vietnam , Mexico, and alot of times they say they don't know where its from.

I stopped eating eggs due to that 6 in 10 eggs have salmonella in them.
I was trying to eat more tofu, but I heard its been associated with breast cancer as well.
So what do you eat? How do you get your protein?

I'd say infinitely better. Olive oil is a monounsaturated fat rich in antioxidants. Butter is high in saturated fat, and poor in antioxidant. There's no comparison. I haven't had a stick of butter in my house for at least 25 years. If it were up to me the only oils I'd use would be olive and canola, the latter providing omega-3 fatty acids. Unfortunately, my girlfriend has an irrational suspicion of canola oil, so we use some Mazola "Corn Plus" oil, which is a blend of corn and canola oils.

Jay

i don't believe this is necessarily true. i'd have to do a little research. but i do remember reading that women from japan have a lower incidence of breast cancer and they do eat more soy products

I stopped eating eggs due to that 6 in 10 eggs have salmonella in them.

I like to use macadamia nut oil, mostly in salads. It does have a fairly high smoke point, being fairly stable for oils in general, but I prefer to saute (if I have to) with canola. It does however have a saturated fat content of about 15% or so, but that's not too bad for a nut.

It also has a good shelf life and is also very low in omega-6, which are those fatty acids that cause rancidity . . .

Is it true that omega-6 fatty acids are more susceptible to rancidity than omega-3's? Based on the little bit of organic chemistry I know, I would predict the opposite.

Jay

No. It depends on the number of double bonds on the alkyl-chain, not the position of the double bonds. More double bonds increases the risk of oxidation, and production of acetones, ketones etc.

By the way. Whats your opinion on long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids like EPA, DHA in the diet.

I'd say infinitely better. Olive oil is a monounsaturated fat rich in antioxidants. Butter is high in saturated fat, and poor in antioxidant. There's no comparison. I haven't had a stick of butter in my house for at least 25 years. If it were up to me the only oils I'd use would be olive and canola, the latter providing omega-3 fatty acids. Unfortunately, my girlfriend has an irrational suspicion of canola oil, so we use some Mazola "Corn Plus" oil, which is a blend of corn and canola oils.

Jay

Switching in corn oil instead of canola oil for health concerns? That strikes me as totally backward.

Japanese women do have a lower incidence of breast cancer than American women, but that doesn't mean that it's due to soy consumption, and even if it is, that doesn't mean that if American women eat more soy in adulthood that that will lower their breast cancer risk. The best evidence, which is still pretty weak, is that consumption of soy early in life reduces breast cancer risk later.

Jay

So, you are agreeing with me that omega-3s should be less stable than omega-6s, right? Also, clearly the position of double bonds in a molecule effects the stability of a molecule.

Jay

Yes, omega-3 would be less stable since they have more double bonds. Im not sure how the position would affect stability in this situation.

My very limited understanding is that if the double bonds aren't conjugated, then the further apart they are the more stable the molecule is, so the —C=C—C—C=C— pattern in polyunsaturated fatty acids, where the double bonds are separated by exactly two single bonds, is the least stable pattern. And this, I think, is why polyunsaturated fatty acids are so much less stable than monounsaturated fatty acids: it's not just that they have more double bonds, but that their pattern is particularly destabilizing.

Jay

Japanese women do have a lower incidence of breast cancer than American women, but that doesn't mean that it's due to soy consumption, and even if it is, that doesn't mean that if American women eat more soy in adulthood that that will lower their breast cancer risk. The best evidence, which is still pretty weak, is that consumption of soy early in life reduces breast cancer risk later.

Jay

There is so much better fish in the east coast and its fresh.

...I find dover sole from the east coast but it isn't fish.

The sell alot of fish from Vietnam , Mexico, and alot of times they say they don't know where its from.

I stopped eating eggs due to that 6 in 10 eggs have salmonella in them.

Egg Industry Statement Regarding Egg Safety
WASHINGTON, June 30 1999

``The chance of encountering an egg contaminated with Salmonella Enteritidis (SE) is very small and the possibility of becoming ill from (SE) can be eliminated completely with proper handling and cooking,'' according to Jill Snowdon, Ph.D., director of food safety for the American Egg Board's Egg Nutrition Center. Based on calculations from the 1998 USDA Salmonella Risk Assessment Report, one egg per 20,000 is contaminated with SE (.005%). According to John Mason, D.V.M., M.P.H., the former director of the USDA Salmonella Enteritidis Control Program,

``Based on USDA's statistics, the average consumer would encounter a contaminated egg only once in 42 years. And then, that egg would have to be time and temperature abused to contribute to a health problem.'' The risk of contracting egg-related Salmonella is extremely low for healthy individuals, according to Dr. Mason. ``There is one outbreak for every one billion eggs consumed,'' he said.

I was trying to eat more tofu, but I heard its been associated with breast cancer as well.

Yes, hence the term "irrational."

Jay

If you're not afraid of saturated fat then coconut oil is one of the more stable frying oils since saturated fats are more temperature stable. It is also pretty flavourless.

And you should be afraid of saturated fat.

Jay

You need some saturated fat in your diet don't you?

I don't know abut the "average consumer," but I think that these statistics argue for caution in handling eggs. Assuming 1 egg per 20,000 is contaminated with salmonella, then if you eat two eggs a day, your chances of encountering a contaminated egg are 5% after a year and a half, 10% after three years, 25% after 8 years, 50% after 19 years, and 75% after 38 years. Assuming that you cook these eggs properly, and wash your hands after cracking open the raw eggs to cook them, no problem; but if you are raw a food nut, or aren't careful about washing your hands after handling the eggs, you have a better than 50:50 chance of being exposed to salmonella in your lifetime from a contaminated egg. I don't know what that means in terms of actually contracting salmonella; presumably not everyone who is exposed gets sick.