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jt512
Mar 13, 2011, 5:26 AM
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marc801 wrote: jt512 wrote: marc801 wrote: In reply to: Egg Industry Statement Regarding Egg Safety WASHINGTON, June 30 1999 ``The chance of encountering an egg contaminated with Salmonella Enteritidis (SE) is very small and the possibility of becoming ill from (SE) can be eliminated completely with proper handling and cooking,'' according to Jill Snowdon, Ph.D., director of food safety for the American Egg Board's Egg Nutrition Center. Based on calculations from the 1998 USDA Salmonella Risk Assessment Report, one egg per 20,000 is contaminated with SE (.005%). According to John Mason, D.V.M., M.P.H., the former director of the USDA Salmonella Enteritidis Control Program, ``Based on USDA's statistics, the average consumer would encounter a contaminated egg only once in 42 years. And then, that egg would have to be time and temperature abused to contribute to a health problem.'' I don't know abut the "average consumer," but I think that these statistics argue for caution in handling eggs. Assuming 1 egg per 20,000 is contaminated with salmonella, then if you eat two eggs a day, your chances of encountering a contaminated egg are 5% after a year and a half, 10% after three years, 25% after 8 years, 50% after 19 years, and 75% after 38 years. Assuming that you cook these eggs properly, and wash your hands after cracking open the raw eggs to cook them, no problem; but if you are raw a food nut, or aren't careful about washing your hands after handling the eggs, you have a better than 50:50 chance of being exposed to salmonella in your lifetime from a contaminated egg. I don't know what that means in terms of actually contracting salmonella; presumably not everyone who is exposed gets sick. Your statistical analysis is correct, but look at what I emphasized. If you're healthy and you follow proper kitchen cleanliness protocol, it's pretty damned unlikely you'll become sick.
OK, what about if you're healthy and you don't follow "proper kitchen cleanliness protocol," since I don't know anybody but me who does?
Jay
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marc801
Mar 13, 2011, 5:32 AM
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jt512 wrote: OK, what about if you're healthy and you don't follow "proper kitchen cleanliness protocol," since I don't know anybody but me who does?
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jt512
Mar 13, 2011, 5:48 AM
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marc801 wrote: jt512 wrote: OK, what about if you're healthy and you don't follow "proper kitchen cleanliness protocol," since I don't know anybody but me who does? Actually, I do as well. Frankly though, salmonella simply isn't all that virulent. It all hinges on how many organisms you get in a single dose. 1000 organisms/ml may have no effect while 100K org/ml has you spending all day in the bathroom.
That's vague. Seriously, if you have data on the infectivity and virulence of salmonella, I'd like to look at it.
Jay
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shockabuku
Mar 13, 2011, 6:01 AM
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marc801 wrote: jt512 wrote: OK, what about if you're healthy and you don't follow "proper kitchen cleanliness protocol," since I don't know anybody but me who does? Actually, I do as well. Frankly though, salmonella simply isn't all that virulent. It all hinges on how many organisms you get in a single dose. 1000 organisms/ml may have no effect while 100K org/ml has you spending all day in the bathroom.
More like all week. I had it when I was 18. It was a very bad experience.
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marc801
Mar 13, 2011, 6:06 AM
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jt512 wrote: That's vague. Seriously, if you have data on the infectivity and virulence of salmonella, I'd like to look at it.
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marc801
Mar 13, 2011, 6:09 AM
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shockabuku wrote: More like all week. I had it when I was 18. It was a very bad experience.
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jt512
Mar 13, 2011, 6:22 AM
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marc801 wrote: jt512 wrote: That's vague. Seriously, if you have data on the infectivity and virulence of salmonella, I'd like to look at it. It all depends on the strain. I recall from food science days that there are over 2000 strains of samonella and under 0.5% are considered dangerous. I have no data. That research is left as an exercise for the reader.
Except that "left as an exercise for the reader" implies that the author knows the answer, not that the author is making a claim he can't support.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 13, 2011, 6:41 AM)
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shockabuku
Mar 13, 2011, 6:29 AM
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marc801 wrote: shockabuku wrote: More like all week. I had it when I was 18. It was a very bad experience. Out of curiosity, was it confirmed as salmonella?
Quite unpleasantly, yes.
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enigma
Mar 13, 2011, 8:45 AM
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shockabuku wrote: marc801 wrote: shockabuku wrote: More like all week. I had it when I was 18. It was a very bad experience. Out of curiosity, was it confirmed as salmonella? Quite unpleasantly, yes.
BREITBART- WASHINGTON ASSOCIATED PRESS
AUGUST 10 2010
2000 Cases Reported -Christopher Braden-Epidemoligist- Federal Center of Disease Control
This form of salmonella is tied to outbreak can be passed from chickens that appear healthy grows inside egg not just on shell/
1/2 billion eggs recalled Iowa Hillandale Farms connected earlier this week
Wright County Farm 380 million recalled
14 states
cases often go undetected due to people not going to doctors and hospitals to get stool samples.
Estimates cases of poisoning may be 30 times higher than reported-FDA /CDC
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marc801
Mar 13, 2011, 1:01 PM
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jt512 wrote: Except that "left as an exercise for the reader" implies that the author knows the answer, not that the author is making a claim he can't support.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 13, 2011, 5:23 PM
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enigma wrote: shockabuku wrote: marc801 wrote: shockabuku wrote: More like all week. I had it when I was 18. It was a very bad experience. Out of curiosity, was it confirmed as salmonella? Quite unpleasantly, yes. BREITBART- WASHINGTON ASSOCIATED PRESS AUGUST 10 2010 2000 Cases Reported -Christopher Braden-Epidemoligist- Federal Center of Disease Control This form of salmonella is tied to outbreak can be passed from chickens that appear healthy grows inside egg not just on shell/ 1/2 billion eggs recalled Iowa Hillandale Farms connected earlier this week Wright County Farm 380 million recalled 14 states cases often go undetected due to people not going to doctors and hospitals to get stool samples. Estimates cases of poisoning may be 30 times higher than reported-FDA /CDC
Have you also cut tomatoes, celery, spinach, and peanut butter out of your diet?
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redrattie
Mar 13, 2011, 5:23 PM
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hafilax wrote: jt512 wrote: milesenoell wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Out of curiosity, and separately from this discussion, anyone know how much better olive oil is over butter? I'd say infinitely better. Olive oil is a monounsaturated fat rich in antioxidants. Butter is high in saturated fat, and poor in antioxidant. There's no comparison. I haven't had a stick of butter in my house for at least 25 years. If it were up to me the only oils I'd use would be olive and canola, the latter providing omega-3 fatty acids. Unfortunately, my girlfriend has an irrational suspicion of canola oil, so we use some Mazola "Corn Plus" oil, which is a blend of corn and canola oils. Jay Switching in corn oil instead of canola oil for health concerns? That strikes me as totally backward. Yes, hence the term "irrational." Jay Canola is a little strange and somewhat unique in the oils. It comes from the seeds of the rapeseed plant which is poisonous. They somehow genetically modified it so that the poisonous part can be removed. By the numbers it seems relatively healthy. Olive oil is definitely the best of the unheated oils. Depending on the specific olive oil used it can become pretty unstable when heated to frying temperatures. Not all olive oils are equal. If you're not afraid of saturated fat then coconut oil is one of the more stable frying oils since saturated fats are more temperature stable. It is also pretty flavourless.
Thanks for the coconut oil tip, I've been looking for something with a little bit of flavor to replace butter when I fry veggies for sandwiches. Not concerned at all with saturated fat, more concerned with whether coconut oil contains fructose. Anyone know if it contains fructose? (I don't eat anything with sugar)
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jt512
Mar 13, 2011, 5:38 PM
Post #313 of 509
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redrattie wrote: Thanks for the coconut oil tip, I've been looking for something with a little bit of flavor to replace butter when I fry veggies for sandwiches. Not concerned at all with saturated fat, more concerned with whether coconut oil contains fructose. Anyone know if it contains fructose? (I don't eat anything with sugar)
Too funny!
Jay
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redrattie
Mar 13, 2011, 5:58 PM
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jt512 wrote: redrattie wrote: Thanks for the coconut oil tip, I've been looking for something with a little bit of flavor to replace butter when I fry veggies for sandwiches. Not concerned at all with saturated fat, more concerned with whether coconut oil contains fructose. Anyone know if it contains fructose? (I don't eat anything with sugar) Too funny! Jay
Glad I was able to bring a laugh to your day, though not sure which part of my question you found to be most funny.
It was a serious question. I have hereditary fructose intolerance and the list of "sugars" I must avoid is quite long. I don't eat coconut and not sure how much, if any fructose it contains, nor do I know how much fructose remains in the different types of oils after processing. (and yes, duh, technically, I do eat some naturally occurring sugars, so you get a  for catching that.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 13, 2011, 10:13 PM
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redrattie wrote: hafilax wrote: jt512 wrote: milesenoell wrote: jt512 wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: Out of curiosity, and separately from this discussion, anyone know how much better olive oil is over butter? I'd say infinitely better. Olive oil is a monounsaturated fat rich in antioxidants. Butter is high in saturated fat, and poor in antioxidant. There's no comparison. I haven't had a stick of butter in my house for at least 25 years. If it were up to me the only oils I'd use would be olive and canola, the latter providing omega-3 fatty acids. Unfortunately, my girlfriend has an irrational suspicion of canola oil, so we use some Mazola "Corn Plus" oil, which is a blend of corn and canola oils. Jay Switching in corn oil instead of canola oil for health concerns? That strikes me as totally backward. Yes, hence the term "irrational." Jay Canola is a little strange and somewhat unique in the oils. It comes from the seeds of the rapeseed plant which is poisonous. They somehow genetically modified it so that the poisonous part can be removed. By the numbers it seems relatively healthy. Olive oil is definitely the best of the unheated oils. Depending on the specific olive oil used it can become pretty unstable when heated to frying temperatures. Not all olive oils are equal. If you're not afraid of saturated fat then coconut oil is one of the more stable frying oils since saturated fats are more temperature stable. It is also pretty flavourless. Thanks for the coconut oil tip, I've been looking for something with a little bit of flavor to replace butter when I fry veggies for sandwiches. Not concerned at all with saturated fat, more concerned with whether coconut oil contains fructose. Anyone know if it contains fructose? (I don't eat anything with sugar)
You don't eat fruit?
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jt512
Mar 14, 2011, 3:43 AM
Post #316 of 509
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redrattie wrote: jt512 wrote: redrattie wrote: Thanks for the coconut oil tip, I've been looking for something with a little bit of flavor to replace butter when I fry veggies for sandwiches. Not concerned at all with saturated fat, more concerned with whether coconut oil contains fructose. Anyone know if it contains fructose? (I don't eat anything with sugar) Too funny! Jay Glad I was able to bring a laugh to your day, though not sure which part of my question you found to be most funny.
Sorry. You sounded just like a Paleo diet faddist. They think saturated fat is healthy and they're paranoid about fructose.
I don't think you have to worry about fructose being in any oil. Sugars aren't fat soluble.
Jay
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redrattie
Mar 14, 2011, 5:39 AM
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jt512 wrote: redrattie wrote: jt512 wrote: redrattie wrote: Thanks for the coconut oil tip, I've been looking for something with a little bit of flavor to replace butter when I fry veggies for sandwiches. Not concerned at all with saturated fat, more concerned with whether coconut oil contains fructose. Anyone know if it contains fructose? (I don't eat anything with sugar) Too funny! Jay Glad I was able to bring a laugh to your day, though not sure which part of my question you found to be most funny. Sorry. You sounded just like a Paleo diet faddist. They think saturated fat is healthy and they're paranoid about fructose. I don't think you have to worry about fructose being in any oil. Sugars aren't fat soluble. Jay
Damn, had I known what Paleo was, I would have laughed with you, and then asked the serious question a couple posts later.
Thanks for the info on the oil. I've been a vegetarian for 20+ years and the only thing separating me from becoming vegan is the butter. What bothers me more than butter is all the high fructose corn syrup being added to products that never used to be there. I now make most of my meals from scratch and have stopped eating out since what used to be safe food, no longer is with all that added sugar.
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jt512
Mar 14, 2011, 6:29 AM
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redrattie wrote: jt512 wrote: redrattie wrote: jt512 wrote: redrattie wrote: Thanks for the coconut oil tip, I've been looking for something with a little bit of flavor to replace butter when I fry veggies for sandwiches. Not concerned at all with saturated fat, more concerned with whether coconut oil contains fructose. Anyone know if it contains fructose? (I don't eat anything with sugar) Too funny! Jay Glad I was able to bring a laugh to your day, though not sure which part of my question you found to be most funny. Sorry. You sounded just like a Paleo diet faddist. They think saturated fat is healthy and they're paranoid about fructose. I don't think you have to worry about fructose being in any oil. Sugars aren't fat soluble. Jay Damn, had I known what Paleo was, I would have laughed with you, and then asked the serious question a couple posts later. Thanks for the info on the oil. I've been a vegetarian for 20+ years and the only thing separating me from becoming vegan is the butter. What bothers me more than butter is all the high fructose corn syrup being added to products that never used to be there. I now make most of my meals from scratch and have stopped eating out since what used to be safe food, no longer is with all that added sugar.
You probably should be concerned about saturated fat intake. Saturated fat increases serum cholesterol, which increases the risk of heart disease.
Like I said up-thread, I haven't had butter in my home for two decades. I can't think of anything you can do with butter that you can't do with either olive oil or canola oil, and you'll be healthier by doing it.
As to my comment about sugars being insoluble in fats, I hope I wasn't being to glib. In theory, everything is soluble in everything to some extent. So even though sugars are considered to be insoluble in fats, if coconuts contain fructose, then there could be trace amounts of fructose in coconut oil. I would think that the concentration would be too low to be of concern, but perhaps you should contact a dietitian or physician to be certain.
Jay
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Greggle
Mar 14, 2011, 7:36 AM
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jt512 wrote: OK, what about if you're healthy and you don't follow "proper kitchen cleanliness protocol," since I don't know anybody but me who does? Jay
Jay, I'm genuinely curious. How do you crack your eggs?
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enigma
Mar 14, 2011, 8:57 AM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: enigma wrote: shockabuku wrote: marc801 wrote: shockabuku wrote: More like all week. I had it when I was 18. It was a very bad experience. Out of curiosity, was it confirmed as salmonella? Quite unpleasantly, yes. BREITBART- WASHINGTON ASSOCIATED PRESS AUGUST 10 2010 2000 Cases Reported -Christopher Braden-Epidemoligist- Federal Center of Disease Control This form of salmonella is tied to outbreak can be passed from chickens that appear healthy grows inside egg not just on shell/ 1/2 billion eggs recalled Iowa Hillandale Farms connected earlier this week Wright County Farm 380 million recalled 14 states cases often go undetected due to people not going to doctors and hospitals to get stool samples. Estimates cases of poisoning may be 30 times higher than reported-FDA /CDC Have you also cut tomatoes, celery, spinach, and peanut butter out of your diet?
The best thing to do is to make a garden and grow your own vegetables organically. A friend of mine grows vegetables in his back yard. So I get them from him. I have also grown my own in a garden.
You live in Nebraska, there must be alot of farm land available. I've been there as well
Fruits can be put in jars and stored. My mother used to make homemade jam.
You can buy peanuts with the shell or almonds and its they are easy to grind.
When I was a child I use to make peanut butter with a little grinder they make for children. Kids love to make their own peanut butter. 
Or go to a market where it is made fresh, they usually have peanut , almond and cashew butter. It tastes excellent.
Health and financially its makes a lot of sense to grow as much vegetables and fruits as you need.
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enigma
Mar 14, 2011, 9:06 AM
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redrattie wrote: jt512 wrote: redrattie wrote: jt512 wrote: redrattie wrote: Thanks for the coconut oil tip, I've been looking for something with a little bit of flavor to replace butter when I fry veggies for sandwiches. Not concerned at all with saturated fat, more concerned with whether coconut oil contains fructose. Anyone know if it contains fructose? (I don't eat anything with sugar) Too funny! Jay Glad I was able to bring a laugh to your day, though not sure which part of my question you found to be most funny. Sorry. You sounded just like a Paleo diet faddist. They think saturated fat is healthy and they're paranoid about fructose. I don't think you have to worry about fructose being in any oil. Sugars aren't fat soluble. Jay Damn, had I known what Paleo was, I would have laughed with you, and then asked the serious question a couple posts later. Thanks for the info on the oil. I've been a vegetarian for 20+ years and the only thing separating me from becoming vegan is the butter. What bothers me more than butter is all the high fructose corn syrup being added to products that never used to be there. I now make most of my meals from scratch and have stopped eating out since what used to be safe food, no longer is with all that added sugar.
That's great, do you have an organic garden? Perhaps you can share with us what you do eat and where you get the food from?
Is there a food coop near you that is organic?
How is your health? Climbing? Thanks
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enigma
Mar 14, 2011, 9:20 AM
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macherry wrote: enigma wrote: wonderwoman wrote: kaizen wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: I eat a lot of fish, which is one of the healthiest things one can eat.  While I agree that fish is really healthy and tasty, be careful not to eat tuna, swordfish, and other large fish species with great regularity. Courtesy of bioaccumulation, they can contain a ton of mercury, which can really fuck you up. Jeremy Piven is a good example. Not to mention that farm raised fish have higher levels of dioxins & other toxicants due to their 'feed'. They really only warn pregnant women / women of childbearing age & children about the Hg levels in predator fish due to potentially harming brain development. But you're right. Mercury isn't really good for anybody. Yes it is very difficult on the west coast to get wild fish thats not farm raised. There is so much better fish in the east coast and its fresh. I won't eat farmed either. I do occasionally get salmon and once and a wild I find dover sole from the east coast but it isn't fish. The sell alot of fish from Vietnam , Mexico, and alot of times they say they don't know where its from. I stopped eating eggs due to that 6 in 10 eggs have salm onella in them.
I was trying to eat more tofu, but I heard its been associated with breast cancer as well. So what do you eat? How do you get your protein? i don't believe this is necessarily true. i'd have to do a little research. but i do remember reading that women from japan have a lower incidence of breast cancer and they do eat more soy products
When I was doing a little research in reference to soy I believe the correlation changes in breast cancer when women are older.
Or you can look on line its published.
There are alot of different soy, some are organic, sprouted etc.
I have met people who grow their own soybeans and make soy products which may be healthier.
I did see it!
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dr_feelgood
Mar 14, 2011, 3:13 PM
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shockabuku wrote: marc801 wrote: jt512 wrote: OK, what about if you're healthy and you don't follow "proper kitchen cleanliness protocol," since I don't know anybody but me who does? Actually, I do as well. Frankly though, salmonella simply isn't all that virulent. It all hinges on how many organisms you get in a single dose. 1000 organisms/ml may have no effect while 100K org/ml has you spending all day in the bathroom. More like all week. I had it when I was 18. It was a very bad experience.
It's a great weigh loss plan.
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camhead
Mar 14, 2011, 3:16 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: shockabuku wrote: marc801 wrote: jt512 wrote: OK, what about if you're healthy and you don't follow "proper kitchen cleanliness protocol," since I don't know anybody but me who does? Actually, I do as well. Frankly though, salmonella simply isn't all that virulent. It all hinges on how many organisms you get in a single dose. 1000 organisms/ml may have no effect while 100K org/ml has you spending all day in the bathroom. More like all week. I had it when I was 18. It was a very bad experience. It's a great weigh loss plan.
Yeah, and the vomiting really builds SICK core strength.
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shockabuku
Mar 14, 2011, 3:23 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: shockabuku wrote: marc801 wrote: jt512 wrote: OK, what about if you're healthy and you don't follow "proper kitchen cleanliness protocol," since I don't know anybody but me who does? Actually, I do as well. Frankly though, salmonella simply isn't all that virulent. It all hinges on how many organisms you get in a single dose. 1000 organisms/ml may have no effect while 100K org/ml has you spending all day in the bathroom. More like all week. I had it when I was 18. It was a very bad experience. It's a great weigh loss plan.
Effective, yes; great, not so much.
For a couple of days after admission to the hospital they didn't know what I had. Raging fever, puking and shitting out anything other than small amounts of water I took in. This was in basic training where no one knew me and my family was multiple states away. Mid 80s. They actually thought I had AIDS for a day or so and put me in isolation. Then the hospital administration chewed me out for telling my parents (over the phone) that I had other than an upper respiratory infection.
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