...sense of entitlement...

Off topic here, I guess.

In rigging a slackline, you pull a hell of a lot of stretch out of the webbing. It can't be totally static.

I guess I rigged a tightrope with a static line once and still pulled a hell of a lot of stretch out of it.

I can't remember which stretches more.

That 1-2% seems low for both from what I recall. It is 3:30 in the morning and I've got a beer in my hand, so whatever.

I am very surprised how many people judged without having all the information. I was in the party of three on the ledge that rescued the girl. She was hanging over the roof and was on a path to total panic. She was dangling in thin air and could not climb over the roof. We tried to get the leader to lower her down to the ledge but there was no response. After several minutes we were not confident the leader could handle the situation at hand. Our lead climber ascended to the roof with our second rope and setup and anchor. He put the rope through the anchor, which was slightly above her waist. She was close enough to grab our rope and tie in using a figure 8 knot. Then I put on her on belay. With the rope tight her feet were about a foot or so from the cliff. Still we heard nothing from her leader. Therefore we suggested she cut the rope and when she did she landed softly on to the cliff as if on a top rope. Then I lowered to the ledge. We got her safely to the repel station and got her down to the ground safely.

The lesson here is not to have inexperienced climbers cowtailed together 15 feet apart on any climb, let alone one like HE. From the moment they started the climb we all thought they could easily get into trouble.

I find this to be very amusing. In fact, its exactly why I avoided the gunks over the weekend and went surfing.

Also, If anyone has ever been terrified to make the move and heard "ITS A JUG!!!" shouted up from the carriage road, that was me.

Everything at the gunks is a jug. or "very positive" at least.

Finally someone who actually was involved posted this:


GO

Finally someone who actually was involved posted this:


GO

...and with that, the armchair internet salad tossing came to an end.

In summary I think some one was a little over anxious to use the old belay knife trick. And maybe the fault shouldn't all be directed at party 2 - seems like enough other people were around gawking, taking pictues etc. but no one was making a serious effort of communicating with the leader on top.

Because I have mutiple crisis in process at work I need a divergence so will try my hand at stirring the pot a bit - don't want the unasked for advice being given from the cheap seats to end I guess - this all has been very entertaining. So:

I think the encouragement and assistence in cutting the rope was an extreme act of showboating and granstanding on the part of party 2. If they were able to set up an anchor above the victim and take some of the weight off (you can now all pontificate about your N to 1 pulley systems or you could have just pulled on the 2nd rope) then she could have worked on simply untieing the knot (yes I am sure it was "welded shut" after all her thrashing - but there was no rush). And that leads to my main point - this seems to be a case of trying to rush to a solution. What was the rush - darkness, storm, serious PHYSICAL injury? - I haven't heard evidence of any of those. Did anyone make an effort to contact the leader (who after all was the key figure) besides bellowing? If someone was able to get in position to establish an anchor above the victim they should have been able to climb past and to the top. Alternatively climb another pitch (last of Double-issima or the top pitch of the rap route) or maybe just walk out right on the GT ledge towards the rap route where bellowing communications would have worked.

In summary I think some one was a little over anxious to use the old belay knife trick. And maybe the fault shouldn't all be directed at party 2 - seems like enough other people were around gawking, taking pictues etc. but no one was making a serious effort of communicating with the leader on top.

I'll toss a bit of gas on the fire, or at least shake out the near empty cup of booze left at the camp into the fire, too...


....and suggest that getting the last 10 feet lopped off his rope is the very least punishment the leader on party 1 should have received for such bad leadership!

I agree with you, Eric. Party 2 was too quick to hand a panicked newbie a knife. Other folks around, could have stepped in sooner, and should have stuck around to drill some sense into them later. But my primary concern is with the leader of the 1st party. I'd like to know exactly WTF the leader of Party 1 was doing.

According to Eman, he rigged a pulley, which means two things: 1) he had some amount of rope skill, and thus could (should!) have figured out lowering them. 2) He was *not* back in the woods stuck to a frozen autoblock, and thus was in some position to communicate. He was moving around, had some skills, and could hear. So where was his input to all this? In my mind, if she'd died of a cut rope, it would have been his fault first.

Not to mention the dangers of having a knife in the hands of someone a)who's freaked out b)in an unstable place c) will then have multiple ropes attached and could become confused.

then even if that is fine you still have a person falling with a knife.. near other people and gear. Or a knife falling 2 pitches down onto who knows how many people below.

It isn't that hard to get up P3 of High E.. some one could have quickly led up it and either helped the belayer or taken over the controls to lower the girl down. I think "hey.. we're going to go up there and get him to lower you.. just hang tight (sigh pun)" woulda been much better then "here's a different rope and a knife"

These statements/accusations are outrageous! I can't believe you people can't have more sympathy for this poor girl, probably on her first significant outdoor climbing experience, and realize how scared she could be not to mention that the leader was probably trying to do a good job but maybe just wasn't able to deal with things as fast as the party below. Shame on you!